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Post by LillaThrilla on Nov 30, 2019 19:51:44 GMT -5
Some moves questions from new stuff added as part of the moves database update in Build 10.
Axe Guillotine Driver: isn't this just an Air Raid Crash (or Kryptonite Krunch, depending on your naming preference)?
Bomaye: isn't this just a Shining Wizard?
cannonball senton: how is this different than a normal senton?
Listo kick: what is this?
Meteora diving Meteora: isn't a Meteora a flying/diving kneedrop? So this seems both redundant to an existing move and redundant with each other, unless there's another move called the Meteora?
Psycho Driver: is this a the torture rack piledriver (Psycho Driver I - not to be confused with II, III, or IV)?
Turbo Backpack: isn't this basically just a snapmare?
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Post by Carlzilla on Nov 30, 2019 22:00:01 GMT -5
Axe Guillotine Driver is back to belly kneeling piledriver. www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWz9MByFNMoBomaye is more like a running/diving roundhouse knee clothesline than a shining wizard. Plus there's no step-up if you want to get super pedantic. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkp207Du5d0Cannonball Senton is another name for the 630 senton that guys with no talent for wrestling but lots of acrobatic ability do to impress people. www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiJ_-q4Ttf8The listo kick is a down rolling kick, usually setup by a schoolboy or some other move "disorienting" move. www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjyJEHV1RYMeteora is a running jumping/diving double knee press (not drop) to a standing opponent. You got the psychodriver. Turbo backpack is sort of an overly complicated sitout snapmare. It looks like stupid contrived wrestling trash, but I guess the sitout is what differentiates it. |
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Post by mkpunk on Nov 30, 2019 22:02:55 GMT -5
Some moves questions from new stuff added as part of the moves database update in Build 10. Axe Guillotine Driver: isn't this just an Air Raid Crash (or Kryptonite Krunch, depending on your naming preference)? Bomaye: isn't this just a Shining Wizard? cannonball senton: how is this different than a normal senton? Listo kick: what is this? Meteora diving Meteora: isn't a Meteora a flying/diving kneedrop? So this seems both redundant to an existing move and redundant with each other, unless there's another move called the Meteora? Psycho Driver: is this a the torture rack piledriver (Psycho Driver I - not to be confused with II, III, or IV)? Turbo Backpack: isn't this basically just a snapmare? Meteora is a weird move since that can be done virtually any way but to an opponent on the turnbuckle so it could have four variants: a standing/running a basement (running), a flying to a standing opponent and a flying basement. Maybe use Kneedrop for the flying basement and double knee-pat for standing/running in special move wizard? Yes, Psycho Driver is the torture rack piledriver. Bombye/Kinshasa is kinda sorta like a Shining Wizard except he don't push off the leg. It is more akin to a sliding kneestrike if you ask me. Unless you max out with moves, I wouldn't replace Bombye with Shining Wizard. The Listo kick is that rolling kneeling roundhouse kick Kalisto does out of a roll up. Turbo backpack is basically a snap mare mixed with an iconoclasm. I guess snap mare could work but it is more of a sitout snap mare... Axe Guillotine Driver/Air Raid Crash/Beach Break is complicated. Air Raid crash is either an across the back or side back-to-belly driver/slam (if you are in WWE) and Beach Break is a sutout belly-to-back piledriver with or without the legs cloverleafed and Axe Guillotine Driver is a kneeling belly-to-back piledriver that may or may end in a rana pin (the Sunset Driver). These moves are different enough that could warrant their own moves but I would say if you are worried about maximums could be combined. Cannonball senton is a somersault senton to a cornered opponent rather than a grounded opponent. I think it can be done standing or seated in the corner. |
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Post by mkpunk on Nov 30, 2019 22:05:27 GMT -5
Axe Guillotine Driver is back to belly kneeling piledriver. www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWz9MByFNMoBomaye is more like a running/diving roundhouse knee clothesline than a shining wizard. Plus there's no step-up if you want to get super pedantic. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkp207Du5d0Cannonball Senton is another name for the 630 senton that guys with no talent for wrestling but lots of acrobatic ability do to impress people. www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiJ_-q4Ttf8The listo kick is a down rolling kick, usually setup by a schoolboy or some other move "disorienting" move. www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjyJEHV1RYMeteora is a running jumping/diving double knee press (not drop) to a standing opponent. You got the psychodriver. Turbo backpack is sort of an overly complicated sitout snapmare. It looks like stupid contrived wrestling trash, but I guess the sitout is what differentiates it. 630/630 senton is its own thing. The cannonball is the cornered somersault senton. I think it derived from PCO's pirate character in the mid 90's Jean Pierre LaFitte who used the flying somersault senton as Le Cannonball. I was always a PCO fan. |
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Post by Carlzilla on Nov 30, 2019 22:08:26 GMT -5
I've heard them both called the cannonball senton, so who knows?
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Post by LillaThrilla on Dec 3, 2019 17:45:05 GMT -5
Bomaye is more like a running/diving roundhouse knee clothesline than a shining wizard. Plus there's no step-up if you want to get super pedantic. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkp207Du5d0When it comes to wrestling moves I'm the opposite of pedantic, especially when it comes to TNM7. Especially with stuff like the Shining Wizard where there are a bajillion small variations. I think it kind of goes against the structure of TNM, especially with the Special Move Wizard plugin, especially for moves (or variants) that are pretty much specific to one guy, especially if it's his/her finisher. Meteora is a running jumping/diving double knee press (not drop) to a standing opponent. So it's a just a high knee, but with both knees instead of one knee? Axe Guillotine Driver/Air Raid Crash/Beach Break is complicated. Air Raid crash is either an across the back or side back-to-belly driver/slam (if you are in WWE) and Beach Break is a sitout belly-to-back piledriver with or without the legs cloverleafed and Axe Guillotine Driver is a kneeling belly-to-back piledriver that may or may end in a rana pin (the Sunset Driver). These moves are different enough that could warrant their own moves but I would say if you are worried about maximums could be combined. No, it's basically all the same thing. I'll probably leave Axe Guillotine Driver because it's the kneeling/"Tombstone" version but I'm keeping the ARC/Beack Break/Krunch all one move. Is Air Raid Crash the post popular name for that kind of move? The cannonball is the cornered somersault senton. I think it derived from PCO's pirate character in the mid 90's Jean Pierre LaFitte who used the flying somersault senton as Le Cannonball. I was always a PCO fan. So a basement somersault senton into the corner? |
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Post by dewelar on Dec 3, 2019 18:09:23 GMT -5
When it comes to wrestling moves I'm the opposite of pedantic, especially when it comes to TNM7. Especially with stuff like the Shining Wizard where there are a bajillion small variations. I think it kind of goes against the structure of TNM, especially with the Special Move Wizard plugin, especially for moves (or variants) that are pretty much specific to one guy, especially if it's his/her finisher. I agree with this so much, since I tend to run TNM with a large number of wrestlers, and am constantly needing to look at where to trim moves. There are just way too many slightly different knee strikes these days to include them all. |
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Post by Carlzilla on Dec 4, 2019 18:44:30 GMT -5
Bomaye is more like a running/diving roundhouse knee clothesline than a shining wizard. Plus there's no step-up if you want to get super pedantic. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkp207Du5d0When it comes to wrestling moves I'm the opposite of pedantic, especially when it comes to TNM7. Especially with stuff like the Shining Wizard where there are a bajillion small variations. I think it kind of goes against the structure of TNM, especially with the Special Move Wizard plugin, especially for moves (or variants) that are pretty much specific to one guy, especially if it's his/her finisher. Meteora is a running jumping/diving double knee press (not drop) to a standing opponent. So it's a just a high knee, but with both knees instead of one knee? Nah, the meteora generally has the attacking wrestler sort of "ride" the victim to the ground. I agree about variants being mostly unnecessary to list as a different move in TNM, but the Boma Ye! and the Shining Wizard are totally different to me. I mean same concept I guess, in that the same way that the DDT and Piledriver are both moves that dump you on your head, but different positions required, different attack style, etc. |
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Post by mkpunk on Dec 4, 2019 21:31:17 GMT -5
Bomaye is more like a running/diving roundhouse knee clothesline than a shining wizard. Plus there's no step-up if you want to get super pedantic. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkp207Du5d0When it comes to wrestling moves I'm the opposite of pedantic, especially when it comes to TNM7. Especially with stuff like the Shining Wizard where there are a bajillion small variations. I think it kind of goes against the structure of TNM, especially with the Special Move Wizard plugin, especially for moves (or variants) that are pretty much specific to one guy, especially if it's his/her finisher. Meteora is a running jumping/diving double knee press (not drop) to a standing opponent. So it's a just a high knee, but with both knees instead of one knee? Axe Guillotine Driver/Air Raid Crash/Beach Break is complicated. Air Raid crash is either an across the back or side back-to-belly driver/slam (if you are in WWE) and Beach Break is a sitout belly-to-back piledriver with or without the legs cloverleafed and Axe Guillotine Driver is a kneeling belly-to-back piledriver that may or may end in a rana pin (the Sunset Driver). These moves are different enough that could warrant their own moves but I would say if you are worried about maximums could be combined. No, it's basically all the same thing. I'll probably leave Axe Guillotine Driver because it's the kneeling/"Tombstone" version but I'm keeping the ARC/Beack Break/Krunch all one move. Is Air Raid Crash the post popular name for that kind of move? The cannonball is the cornered somersault senton. I think it derived from PCO's pirate character in the mid 90's Jean Pierre LaFitte who used the flying somersault senton as Le Cannonball. I was always a PCO fan. So a basement somersault senton into the corner? Bomaye/Kinshasa is more so a running knee with no push off like a Shining Wizard does. As another poster said, they are similar in that they are both knees. That said if you include shining moves with Shining Wizard, that would still not fly. Then again you have the basement dropkick Bakatare Kick as a shining Wizard... Meteora is like a kneedrop thesz press except it can be done running or flying to both a standing or sitting opponent. It is either a driving kneesmash or a driving kneedrop that can end in a rana pin. As for Beach Break, I'll give you that because only a handful of wrestlers use it and typically it is a finisher but it is only similar to the Air Raid Crash. It starts the same but Air Raid Crash is done across the back or on the side (think WWE games on Game Cube) and the Beach Break is more of head-drop while Air Raid Crash typically ends in a neckdrop or a slam (especially in WWE.) I don't know what is the common name for it. Some call it the Air Raid Crash, some call it the Kryptonite Krunch. I think those are the two most common names for it. As for the cannonball, yes you are right but it is the cannonball. It is called that in nearly any promotion it is done in. |
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Post by kingofoldschool on Dec 7, 2019 16:13:12 GMT -5
Since I created all of these, I can explain! Axe Guillotine Driver: isn't this just an Air Raid Crash (or Kryptonite Krunch, depending on your naming preference)?Glad you pointed this one out! The Axe Guillotine Driver is Hangman Page's Dead Eye and is quite different to the Air Raid Crash. However, this is not the move I intended to create! I believed it was the cradle back-to-belly piledriver, which is what I actually wanted in my database: I am going to sort this, leave it with me. Bomaye: isn't this just a Shining Wizard?This has been discussed in detail in the previous replies. I created it for Kota Ibushi as he now uses it regularly as a tribute to Shinsuke Nakamura (including the Nakamura theatrics!) cannonball senton: how is this different than a normal senton?This is the move in question: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq652kL-JCUI would not call this a "basement somersault senton into the corner" as it can be performed on the outside. Listo kick: what is this?www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiYPS-rLvaM
Meteora diving Meteora: isn't a Meteora a flying/diving kneedrop? So this seems both redundant to an existing move and redundant with each other, unless there's another move called the Meteora?The Meteora is CIMA's finisher, performed on an opponent on the mat and results in an automatic pin: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRvgrTYD-TUThe diving Meteora is performed on a standing opponent: www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R7aL6k3Jp8Psycho Driver: is this a the torture rack piledriver (Psycho Driver I - not to be confused with II, III, or IV)?Yes indeed: www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoNlMPLRwBY
Turbo Backpack: isn't this basically just a snapmare?Created for Robbie Eagles, this is definitely not a snap mare: If you have any other questions please let me know. |
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Post by LillaThrilla on Dec 8, 2019 19:57:27 GMT -5
Meteora diving Meteora: isn't a Meteora a flying/diving kneedrop? So this seems both redundant to an existing move and redundant with each other, unless there's another move called the Meteora?The Meteora is CIMA's finisher, performed on an opponent on the mat and results in an automatic pin: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRvgrTYD-TUThe diving Meteora is performed on a standing opponent: www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R7aL6k3Jp8Didn't someone in Lucha Underground use this move too - either Sexy Star or Killshot? CIMA's Meteora is already a diving move (i.e. off the top rope onto an opponent on the mat) so calling Sasha Banks' move a "diving Meteora" is misleading. "Meteora press" seems like a better name as it's kind of like a Thesz press. |
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Post by mkpunk on Dec 11, 2019 13:32:47 GMT -5
Meteora diving Meteora: isn't a Meteora a flying/diving kneedrop? So this seems both redundant to an existing move and redundant with each other, unless there's another move called the Meteora?The Meteora is CIMA's finisher, performed on an opponent on the mat and results in an automatic pin: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRvgrTYD-TUThe diving Meteora is performed on a standing opponent: www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R7aL6k3Jp8Didn't someone in Lucha Underground use this move too - either Sexy Star or Killshot? CIMA's Meteora is already a diving move (i.e. off the top rope onto an opponent on the mat) so calling Sasha Banks' move a "diving Meteora" is misleading. "Meteora press" seems like a better name as it's kind of like a Thesz press. That is the Swerve Stomp which is similar but a double stomp variant. I think Meteora should be the standing/running and the top rope variant should be a Diving/Flying Meteora. |
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Post by mkpunk on Dec 11, 2019 13:34:24 GMT -5
Since I created all of these, I can explain! Axe Guillotine Driver: isn't this just an Air Raid Crash (or Kryptonite Krunch, depending on your naming preference)?Glad you pointed this one out! The Axe Guillotine Driver is Hangman Page's Dead Eye and is quite different to the Air Raid Crash. However, this is not the move I intended to create! I believed it was the cradle back-to-belly piledriver, which is what I actually wanted in my database: I am going to sort this, leave it with me. Bomaye: isn't this just a Shining Wizard?This has been discussed in detail in the previous replies. I created it for Kota Ibushi as he now uses it regularly as a tribute to Shinsuke Nakamura (including the Nakamura theatrics!) cannonball senton: how is this different than a normal senton?This is the move in question: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq652kL-JCUI would not call this a "basement somersault senton into the corner" as it can be performed on the outside. Listo kick: what is this?www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiYPS-rLvaM
Meteora diving Meteora: isn't a Meteora a flying/diving kneedrop? So this seems both redundant to an existing move and redundant with each other, unless there's another move called the Meteora?The Meteora is CIMA's finisher, performed on an opponent on the mat and results in an automatic pin: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRvgrTYD-TUThe diving Meteora is performed on a standing opponent: www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R7aL6k3Jp8Psycho Driver: is this a the torture rack piledriver (Psycho Driver I - not to be confused with II, III, or IV)?Yes indeed: www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoNlMPLRwBY
Turbo Backpack: isn't this basically just a snapmare?Created for Robbie Eagles, this is definitely not a snap mare: If you have any other questions please let me know. The sunset driver is basically a package Ax Guillotine Driver. Most use the Ax Guillotine Driver as a finish. |
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Post by kingofoldschool on Dec 12, 2019 9:08:00 GMT -5
When creating a new move, I am now trying to go with the most common and widely accepted name.
The Meteora was invented by CIMA and is performed to an opponent on the mat, so I went with this.
I created the diving version so that this can be hit when the opponent is on their feet. Search for “diving Meteora” on Google, and most video results returned will have a standing opponent getting hit.
(As an aside, initially in TNM "diving" moves were ones with a downward trajectory for the person performing them. "Diving headbutt" was the thing the Barbarian did coming out of the ropes against a downed opponent. "Diving ..." usually was a move performed from the top rope or second rope and usually involved a striking motion.
When others started creating wrestlers with whose style they were familiar, they didn't always uphold this logic. That's not a dig, just a statement of fact. The export files have never been closely monitored for different interpretations of this convention.)
I have also created “running basement Meteora” where the wrestler is not on the turnbuckles and the opponent is on the mat, for example:
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