Wrestler Export Tips

[LillaThrilla]

These assume you are using TNM7SE. These are probably know to most TNM users, but over the years these are places that seemed most confusing or misused. Please let me know if I've made any errors or you feel there is something I should add.

Build
Lean: skinny wrestlers - usually high flying types or US female wrestlers.
Rey Mysterio Jr, Spike Dudley

Athletic: average sized or fit, without bulging muscles. Common among cruiserweights or athletes-turned-wrestlers (UFC fighters, football players).
Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit

Muscular: bulging muscles; bodybuilder physiques
Hulk Hogan, Scott Steiner (1998 onward)

Bulky: larger wrestlers who have neither bulging muscles nor bulging fat.
Kevin Nash, Undertaker

Obese: fat guys
Yokozuna, Rikishi, The Natural Disasters

Moves
Move 1 should be a move the wrestler can do coming off the ropes.

Example: clothesline

Edit: Per Oliver, this was true in the past (pre-TNM7?) but no longer.

Finisher Name
Don't start the Finisher Name with "The".

You can leave this blank along with the rest of the info on the Finisher screen if the wrestler has no finisher (i.e. jobbers).

Finisher - Outside The Ring
Check this only if the move makes sense "on the floor" - if it makes sense outside the ring in a non-FCA match.
Piledriver = yes, Dandina Cradle = no.

Secondary Finisher
Should not be the same move as Finisher Similiar To. This should be another move that is often used to end the match.

Example: The Rock's Finisher is the People's Elbow and his Secondary Finisher is the Rock Bottom.

This move should be included in the wrestler's Move List.

Not every wrestler has a Secondary Finisher.

Finisher - Similiar To
This is used so the wrestler's Finisher can be used a counter move. This is not necessarily the move in your database that most closely resembles the Finisher.

Example:
Goldberg's Jackhammer. His Finisher Similiar To should be a vertical suplex. This means if Goldberg's opponent attempts a vertical suplex and Goldberg counters it with his own vertical suplex he will instead counter with the Jackhammer.

This move should not be on the wrestler's Move List.

Finisher - Counters
Counter 1 should be empty ("Block") if the Finisher is blockable. If the Finisher is not blockable then there should be a counter move in Counter 1. (If Counter 2 or Counter 3 treat "Block" as "none".)

Examples:
Piledriver (blockable) should have Counter 1 = Block and Counter 2 = backdrop
Flying Splash (not blockable) should have Coutner 1 = roll away

There is no need to have the same Counter listed multiple times.

Example: Big Leg Drop should have Counter 1 = roll away and Counter 2 and 3 empty.

Finisher - Setup Move
A move that always precedes the wrestler's Finisher.

Example: Steve Austin's Stone Cold Stunner should have Setup Move = kick to the midsection.

This move should be included in the wrestler's Move List.

Not every wrestler has a Finisher Setup Move.

Attributes - Heel Tactics
If checked, in a Circuit the wrestler will default to Heel alignment. Otherwise, they will default to Face alignment.

Attributes - Foreign Object
This is a wrestler's trademark foreign object which they will usually bring to the ring and can use as a weapon against an opponent.

Examples: Jeff Jarrett's guitar, Sting's baseball bat, William Regal's brass knux, Sandman's Singapore cane.

Most wrestlers do no have one.

Attributes
Uses Chairs = may hit opponent with a chair

Sits Up = Undertaker's "zombie situp"

Hulk Up = Hogan's superman comebacks

Hardcore Wrestler = may hit opponent with foreign objects other than chairs, tables, and their signature foreign object - the ones found in your Foreign Objects Database.

Walks Out = may intentionally get counted out of a match

Begs Off = may plead for mercy with opponent to gain an advantage (ex: Ric Flair)

Springs Up = The Rock's kip up, Booker T's spinarooni

Springs Of Chairs = may jump off a chair when executing a move that has "can be done from a chair" checked.

Skins The Cat = if thrown out of the ring, the wrestler may catch the top rope and pull themselves back into the ring (ex: Shawn Michaels)

Cross-Corner Move
For situations where one wrestler whips the other from one corner into the opposite corner then follows them in with a move.

When you click Specify Move you will be asked if the move should be the wrestler's Finisher.

If the move is not the wrestler's finisher it does not need to be included in their Move List.

Examples:
Follows In = avalanche, Stinger Splash, Vader attack, Bronco Buster
Move Out Of The Corner = clothesline
Counter Move In Corner = superkick (used against an opponent using their Follows In move)

Opponent Has To Move Out Of The Way
This box is checked in addition to one of the other boxes. This is for cross-corner moves that can only be countered by getting out of the way.
Example1: avalanche would not have this checked (you could counter with a kick to the head)
Example2: clothesline would have this checked (none of the normal counters to a clothesline are very feasible in the corner)
(Thanks to Ryan/Snabbit for clarification on this.)

Working The Crowd String
This should be written as an action, but should not include the wrestler's name.

Something the wrestler does to elicit a reaction from the crowd during a match. This should not involve anything physical with the opponent.

Examples:
works the crowd
taunts the crowd
flexes his arms
does a crotch chop
gives the referee the finger
yellls "OH YEAH!"

Desperation Move
Formerly called "Special Move". This is not for moves per-se, but special attacks to suddenly turn the match in the wrestler's favor when he/she is losing. Most wrestlers do not have one.

This should be written as an action, but should not include the wrestler's name.

Example:
Great Muta's desperation move would be
spews mist in his opponent's face

Illegal = if this desperation move can cause a DQ (it usually can)

Sets Up Finisher = if the move will be followed by the wrestler executing their Finisher. Otherwise, they will usually attempt a pinfall immediately after the desperation move.

Combo
If the wrestler always follows a specific move with another specific move.

Setup Move should be in the wrestler's Move List, but Follow-Up Move does not need to be.

This can be used if a wrestler does a move into another move, such as a drop toe hold into a STF.
Setup Move = drop toe hold
Followup Move = STF

If the wrestler does the same move several times then put that move as their Setup Move and leave Followup Move empty.

Examples:
Chris Benoit's Rolling German Suplexes -> Setup Move = German suplex
Eddie Guerrero's Three Amigos -> Setup Move = Vertical Suplex

Corner Moves
2-3 moves when a wrestler has backed their opponent into a corner. They will start with Move 1 then do Move 2 then do Move 3 in sequence (if none are blocked or countered). This is not the same as a Cross-Corner Move.

None of these moves need to be in the wrestler's Move List.

These moves are usually strikes like kicks, punches, or chops. If a wrestler does the "10 punches in the corner while the crowd counts along" spot or does a repeated headsmash into the turnbuckle spot this would be where you put those moves. All three moves can be the same or different.

Styles
This applies primarily for Style-Specific Counters.

Wrestlers can have any number of Styles. They aren't required to have any, but probably any wrestler falls under at least one (most fall under 2-3).

Technician: "technical wrestlers". Submissions, takedowns, and rollups.
Bret Hart, Chris Benoit.

Brawler: basic striking offense especially punches, including hardcore wrestlers and former boxers.
Steve Austin

High Flyer: lots of aerial moves and rely on being quick and nimble.
Rey Mysterio

Powerhouse: larger wrestlers using brute force, but more slams than strikes.
Kevin Nash, The Big Show

Wrestler: amateur wrestling background, usually in college. Suplexes and go-behinds.
Steiner Brothers, Kurt Angle

Heel: illegal moves like low blows
Ric Flair

Old Style: pre-90s wrestlers or who wrestle in that style. Basic/classic moves.

Martial Artists: Background in any martial art from karate to kickboxing. Strikes, kicks, and takedowns.
Ernest Miller

Shooter: Usually a background in shootfighting such as UFC, but occasionally wrestlers who imitate the style. Takedowns and legitimately painful submissions.
Ken Shamrock, Bill Goldberg

Must Not Use Default Counters: check this if the wrestler will only use Style-Specific Counters; they will not use default/generic counter moves unless there are no Style-Specific Counters for any of their styles. This is rarely used and mostly for something like making a UFC circuit using UFC fighters.

[snabbit888]

Great job on this. Seriously, well done.

For the Follows In move, has to move out of the way being checked means there is no other counter other than just not being there when the opponent arrives. So an avalanche wouldn't need Has to move out of the way checked because you could counter with a boot to the face, back elbow, etc. However, if the Follows In move is a kick to the face, I'd say you'd have to get out of the way.

Not sure if that's the best example though.

[theimpalertmx]

I've always interpreted this as the wrestler follows in, the opponent moves, but the wrestler counters and still hits a move.

Example: Rey Mysterio has whipped Chavo Guerrero into the turnbuckle. As Rey charges in, Chavo moves out of the way (side steps, ducks, etc.) Rey telegraphs this, though, runs up the turnbuckle, and then twists around with a cross-body block.

[LillaThrilla]

Jun 24, 2011 0:19:48 GMT -5 snabbit888 said:

For the Follows In move, has to move out of the way being checked means there is no other counter other than just not being there when the opponent arrives. So an avalanche wouldn't need Has to move out of the way checked because you could counter with a boot to the face, back elbow, etc. However, if the Follows In move is a kick to the face, I'd say you'd have to get out of the way.

Okay that makes sense. A Yakuza kick into the corner makes sense for "Has To Move Out Of The Way". So would a clothesline because all the normal counters to a clothesline (crucifix, hiptoss, armbar) require some space behind you - space that doesn't exist if you're up against the turnbuckles.

[JoshiQ]

I don't do a ton with the creation of exports, definitely not up to this much detail. That being said, Liller, this is great. This is something you should post on TNM 3:16 just to make sure it doesn't get lost at any point.

[LillaThrilla]

Jun 24, 2011 13:15:28 GMT -5 JoshiQ said:

This is something you should post on TNM 3:16 just to make sure it doesn't get lost at any point.

Absolutely. I tend to post stuff like this and the Circuit Ideas on the forums for a little feedback before it goes up on TNM 3:16.

[imtheniz]

Jun 23, 2011 21:27:39 GMT -5 LillaThrilla said:

Finisher - Similiar To
This is used so the wrestler's Finisher can be used a counter move. This is not necessarily the move in your database that most closely resembles the Finisher.

Example:
Goldberg's Jackhammer. His Finisher Similiar To should be a vertical suplex. This means if Goldberg's opponent attempts a vertical suplex and Goldberg counters it with his own vertical suplex he will instead counter with the Jackhammer.

This move should not be on the wrestler's Move List.

This is interesting to me. I had always made the Finisher Similar To a move that was similar to the wrestler's finisher. I think I understand your explanation as to what it actually means, but could anyone provide some more examples?

Also, will every wrestler have a Finisher Similar To? Should wrestlers have more than one?

[snabbit888]

You know, after all these years, I never made that connection that similar to wasn't referring necessarily to what the move actually is. I'd say in a lot of instances, it's the same thing, but still.

Color me surprised.

[LillaThrilla]

Jun 27, 2011 10:22:41 GMT -5 snabbit888 said:

You know, after all these years, I never made that connection that similar to wasn't referring necessarily to what the move actually is. I'd say in a lot of instances, it's the same thing, but still.

Yeah, usually.

Here I thought the shocker for most people would be Move 1 in a wrestler's Move List should be something off the ropes. I didn't know that one for about a decade.

Jun 27, 2011 10:09:45 GMT -5 @imtheniz said:

Finisher - Similiar To
This is used so the wrestler's Finisher can be used a counter move. This is not necessarily the move in your database that most closely resembles the Finisher.

Example:
Goldberg's Jackhammer. His Finisher Similiar To should be a vertical suplex. This means if Goldberg's opponent attempts a vertical suplex and Goldberg counters it with his own vertical suplex he will instead counter with the Jackhammer.

This is interesting to me. I had always made the Finisher Similar To a move that was similar to the wrestler's finisher. I think I understand your explanation as to what it actually means, but could anyone provide some more examples?

Also, will every wrestler have a Finisher Similar To? Should wrestlers have more than one?[/quote]

Wrestler's can't have more than one Finisher Similiar To; there's no place to list more than one.

A wrestler's finisher doesn't have to have a Finisher Similiar To move. Sometimes there simply isn't anything similiar in the moves database. But technically, if the move is not used as the counter to anything in your moves database you're not losing any functionality.

If someone uses a 630 Senton for a finisher (flying senton with two somersault rotations instead of one) it doesn't really matter if the Finisher Similiar To move is a flying senton or a flying somersault senton because neither move is a counter move to anything.

Putting a Jackhammer for Goldberg's Finisher Similiar To isn't technically wrong; it's simply ineffective. It's nice for descriptive purposes but wont really mean anything when running a match. The reason being that a vertical suplex is listed as the counter to several moves, but a Jackhammer usually isn't (due to limitations in number of counters per move and the lack an option for wrestler-specific counters).

If a wrestler's finisher is any kind of vertical suplex into something (Jackhammer, Orange Crush Bomb, Falcon Arrow, Screwdriver, Brainbuster) you are better off having their Finisher Similiar To being a vertical suplex so they can counter an opponent's vertical suplex with their finisher.

Similiar thing would apply for Batista. His finisher is a sitout/sitdown power bomb. If you list his Finisher Similiar To as a basic power bomb then if his opponent does a Frankensteiner he can counter with the Batista Bomb. Same thing for someone with a running power bomb finisher (Liger? I'm not sure which of his half-dozen signature moves is his "Finisher").

Make sense?

[imtheniz]

I appreciate the reply about the Finisher Similar To.

It appears that most often, the Finisher Similar To will indeed be a move that is similar to the finisher.

Just to make sure I understand, let me give you an example. I realize this example is not a very good one, but it's just to get the idea...

Let's say I am editing Edge. His finisher is the Spear. If I make his Finisher Similar To a hip toss, does this mean I could get something like this to happen in a match:

"Alberto Del Rio goes for a hip toss, but Edge reverses it with the Spear.

Edge goes for the cover."

[LillaThrilla]

Jun 27, 2011 14:30:01 GMT -5 @imtheniz said:

Just to make sure I understand, let me give you an example. I realize this example is not a very good one, but it's just to get the idea...

Let's say I am editing Edge. His finisher is the Spear. If I make his Finisher Similar To a hip toss, does this mean I could get something like this to happen in a match:

"Alberto Del Rio goes for a hip toss, but Edge reverses it with the Spear.
Edge goes for the cover."

According to my moves list, a hiptoss is a counter to a hiptoss so yes that should work as you described.

[allpowerfulgarth]

Wouldn't it still show up in the match narrative as "but Edge counters it with a hiptoss?" If I remember correctly, it will only pop up as the finisher name in the match results. I remember I had this happen years ago -- Rey Mysterio was facing a fictional wrestler whose finisher was a power bomb (for the sake of simplicity, let's pretend it was Sid Vicious). The match finish went like this:

Rey Mysterio goes for the Springboard Huracanrana, but Sid Vicious counters with a power bomb.
Earl Hebner counts: One, two, three.

The winner is Sid Vicious.

But the actual result displayed went like this.

Sid Vicious pinned Rey Mysterio with the Power Bomb in 0:09:12.

That was a hell of a long time ago, though, so it's possible I was using an older version of TNM and that's since been improved.

[rey619]

Jun 27, 2011 11:46:14 GMT -5 LillaThrilla said:

Here I thought the shocker for most people would be Move 1 in a wrestler's Move List should be something off the ropes. I didn't know that one for about a decade.

This was clarified for me due to your post, actually. I always thought the first move was something you could do that DIDN'T involve the ropes (for some reason, "off the ropes" was interpreted by me as a move you could do without the help of ropes), so I think I have a lot of editing to on my own female exports. Putting a wristlock as the first move may not be optimal then.

[snabbit888]

What was the reason again for the first move having to be off the ropes?

[LillaThrilla]

Got a few clarifications from Oliver:

1) Move 1 used to need to be off the ropes, but that actually from pre-TNM7 versions. "The first move was a move that would exclusively be done after whipping the opponent into the ropes. TNM7 and later no longer make that distinction."

2) Regarding the "Has To Move Out Of The Way" flag on a cross-corner move:
"For some moves, sticking out your leg just doesn't make sense. For instance, when somebody is coming in with a handspring elbow, it only makes sense to move out of the way. Hence the flag."

[rey619]

Regarding the "Hardcore Wrestler" flag. Should this be used only for wrestlers who more often than not uses foreign objects and go outside to brawl? I mean, if someone occasionally did a Street Fight to end a feud, that doesn't mean this flag should be ticked off, right ?

[LillaThrilla]

Jan 28, 2012 8:15:13 GMT -5 rey619 said:

Regarding the "Hardcore Wrestler" flag. Should this be used only for wrestlers who more often than not uses foreign objects and go outside to brawl? I mean, if someone occasionally did a Street Fight to end a feud, that doesn't mean this flag should be ticked off, right ?

I think it's supposed to be hardcore brawler types like most ECW wrestlers. They use weapon shots like Ric Flair uses chops: a standard match component.

[kingofoldschool]

Well, I only recently realised that when you import a new wrestler export, only new moves get imported with it and any current moves you have do NOT get replaced. I guess this makes sense because you would be quite miffed if you curated your move set to your liking and then with the next export file you use, it all gets replaced with somebody else's vision.

I'm highlighting this because if you started with the "clean" install off of .com, cross-face chicken wing is a regular move (not a submission hold), kneelift is listed as a counter for shooting star press and standing moonsault (should be knee pull-up) and figure-four leglock has "no rope break" checked (it shouldn't be). You all may want to start amending these moves in your database!

[kingofoldschool]

Some information on finishing holds that I wanted to make sure people are aware of.

Setup moves
Every wrestler hits their finisher out of nowhere if the opponent's energy runs out. BUT: if a setup move is selected, that is the ONLY way they will hit it unless the opponent runs out of energy (or off of a counter).

A question to consider when you are setting up finishing holds: does this wrestler ALWAYS do this move right before his finisher? If yes, use it. If not, don't.
With most of today's wrestlers, I would advise against using it. It really limits the diversity of the finishes.


Finisher information
It was noticed when testing my Roman Reigns export that every time Reigns went for his Spear finisher, he whipped his opponent into the ropes first. This is because "Opponent Runs" is checked. This flag was created for finishers like Arn Anderson's spinebuster... moves where you HAD TO send you opponent into the ropes or HAD TO have him running on his own for the move to be possible.
So when this is checked and when TNM decides it's time for the wrestler to go for his finisher and when the opponent isn't running, TNM will send him into the ropes.

This is really awkward for Reigns because he simply doesn't do that. If anything, he retreats back into a corner and waits for the opponent to get up. He never once has whipped his opponent into the ropes to perform a spear.

I have now updated this export to uncheck "Opponent Runs". The guy running is the one who is performing the spear. And if the person who is performing the spear is running, it doesn't matter what the opponent is doing. So when the "Opponent Runs" flag is set, TNM says, "aargh... I can't do this move unless the opponent is running". This cuts down on several ways in which Reigns could be hitting his finisher and always railroads him into ensuring that the opponent is running.

This is the decision tree (specific to finishers):
If "Out Of Ropes" is set, the move can be performed if either the wrestler, the opponent or both are running.
If it's important WHO is running, use the "Wrestler Runs" or "Opponent Runs" flags in addition.

With regular moves, it works differently. Which move is performed is chosen situationally, i.e. if the wrestler and/or the opponent is running, a move will be chosen that is relevant to that particular scenario.
With the finisher, the scenario is forced, because you only have one finisher while you have up to 50 moves.

[moppelfuzz]

Hey there! After a few years I'm back in TNM and this forum where I stumbled across this thread and especially this explanation which confuses me a lot:

Jun 23, 2011 21:27:39 GMT -5 LillaThrilla said:

Finisher - Similiar To
This is used so the wrestler's Finisher can be used a counter move. This is not necessarily the move in your database that most closely resembles the Finisher.

Example:
Goldberg's Jackhammer. His Finisher Similiar To should be a vertical suplex. This means if Goldberg's opponent attempts a vertical suplex and Goldberg counters it with his own vertical suplex he will instead counter with the Jackhammer.

Ok, this applies when Goldberg counters a vertical suplex. But what is when Goldberg shows his finisher while he's in offense? In this case he's still using the "similar to" move vertical suplex (which is listed with 50 damage points in my list) instead of the Jackhammer (with 100 damage points), right? If so, it seems a little bit illogical to me. Not only would an export execute a move with lesser damage (in wrestling "reality" as well as TNM terms) but the wrestlers also using their finishers more often in offense instead as a counter move so wouldn't it make more sense to let Goldberg use the Jackhammer as the "similar to" move to give this export's finisher more impact? Or am I misunderstanding something completely here?

Oh, and sorry for any errors...I'm a stupid German and my English is improvable.

[LillaThrilla]

Mar 21, 2023 20:32:16 GMT -5 moppelfuzz said:

Goldberg's Jackhammer. His Finisher Similiar To should be a vertical suplex. This means if Goldberg's opponent attempts a vertical suplex and Goldberg counters it with his own vertical suplex he will instead counter with the Jackhammer.

Ok, this applies when Goldberg counters a vertical suplex. But what is when Goldberg shows his finisher while he's in offense? In this case he's still using the "similar to" move vertical suplex (which is listed with 50 damage points in my list) instead of the Jackhammer (with 100 damage points), right? If so, it seems a little bit illogical to me. Not only would an export execute a move with lesser damage (in wrestling "reality" as well as TNM terms) but the wrestlers also using their finishers more often in offense instead as a counter move so wouldn't it make more sense to let Goldberg use the Jackhammer as the "similar to" move to give this export's finisher more impact? Or am I misunderstanding something completely here?[/quote]

"Finisher Similar To" ONLY applies to whether the finisher can be used as a counter move; it has no effect on damage.

[moppelfuzz]

Sorry, I still don't get it. In the "Finisher" field it says Jackhammer and in the "Similar to" field vertical suplex - this way when he's in defense he's able to counter moves that have vertical suplex checked as counter move. ok. But what move will his counter be? A vertical suplex or a Jackhammer? And more important for me: which of these two moves he will apply when he's in offense? I was in believe the "Finisher" field just was a placeholder for the specific name of the move (like Sweet Chin Music or Stevie Kick) and the "Similar to" field to specify the move (so you just have the superkick in your move list and not a million differently called other versions of that move).

[LillaThrilla]

Mar 23, 2023 22:32:38 GMT -5 moppelfuzz said:

Sorry, I still don't get it. In the "Finisher" field it says Jackhammer and in the "Similar to" field vertical suplex - this way when he's in defense he's able to counter moves that have vertical suplex checked as counter move. ok. But what move will his counter be? A vertical suplex or a Jackhammer? And more important for me: which of these two moves he will apply when he's in offense? I was in believe the "Finisher" field just was a placeholder for the specific name of the move (like Sweet Chin Music or Stevie Kick) and the "Similar to" field to specify the move (so you just have the superkick in your move list and not a million differently called other versions of that move).

If someone tries to give Goldberg a vertical suplex, but he counters it his own vertical suplex (vertical suplex is a counter to a vertical suplex) he will instead counter it with the Jackhammer.

Since Goldberg's Jackhammer has Similar To = vertical suplex then he should not have vertical suplex in his Moves list.

[moppelfuzz]

Yeah, I get that with the counters, my question is a different one. Let's take a second example. Nearly all of the Shawn Michaels exports look the following
Finisher: Sweet Chin Music
Similar to: superkick

I don't have a move called Sweet Chin Music in my movelist (and didn't had problems because of that so far) so the program doesn't have a clue what the move is, how much damage it inflicts on the opponent and so on. How this will be calculated? And I know that no move has the superkick as counter move but let's pretend some have. So when he counters that moves he will show no superkick but the Sweet Chin Music instead, and again this move doesn't exist in the move list. how will de damage for that be calculated when the program can't fall back on the move database?

[LillaThrilla]

Mar 25, 2023 23:00:48 GMT -5 moppelfuzz said:

how much damage it inflicts on the opponent and so on. How this will be calculated?

Finishers have a standard amount of damage, without regard to their Similar To move. Otherwise, wrestlers without a Similar To move would have a finisher that deals zero damage.

This is presumably modified slightly when the finisher is done outside the ring and based on the weight class of the wrestler doing the move (and maybe a little extra for finishers off the top rope too).