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Post by gentlemanjeff on Jun 16, 2013 14:44:23 GMT -5
Hey dudes, Thought this would be a fun discussion topic; who's bigger in this world versus who is bigger in the real world. It's an interesting breakdown--here's just a few off the top of my head: - Bob Backlund - Way more famous in GCW's world. Probably closer to the way Ric Flair is perceived in our world, with a series of effective face and heel runs, a certain dynamism in the character, and a bunch of meaningful title reigns in the 80s. Ryan's really done a great job making Bob Backlund MEAN something, in that you could see the character continuing straight through the late 80s and into the mid 90s. Also, given what we saw from Backlund in the 90s, it seems completely plausible that he could have done a similar character in the 80s.
- Jimmy Snuka - More famous in GCW's world. World title run, great feuding partnership with Backlund, a more dynamic character. Also, seems very plausible that Snuka's career actually could have taken this arc.
- Hulk Hogan - Less famous in this world, but more because he's coming up in the gritty St. Louis/Dallas/Atlanta NWF scene, as opposed to the glitzy WWF limelight. I see an NWF Hogan being our Hogan dialed back a bit--he's wrestling more his Japan style than his WWF style, he's not quite as cartoonish, he's a bit more vulnerable. You don't get the HOGAN SMASH expansion era that Vince McMahon had, but maybe Hogan's character is deeper as a result and he's not so played out by the early 90s.
- Ric Flair - Substantially less famous. Nowhere near the title prestige, never carried a promotion, signature feud is with a referee. Will have to really turn it up in the late 80s to come closer to his real life counterpart.
- Randy Savage - More famous, but too early to tell for sure. I do think Savage ends up carrying promotions in this universe as opposed to playing consistent lackey to Hogan, though.
- Rick Martel - Obviously way bigger in this universe. If Martel gets the GCW title, then he's probably the character with the single biggest shift in prestige from the original timeline.
- Harley Race - Race's GCW run wasn't necessarily anymore dominant than his NWA run in real life, but it did take place in the New York media market. For that reason alone Race is more famous.
What do the guys running this outfit think? How do you perceive your own booking versus the way things played out in real life?
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Post by JoshiQ on Jun 16, 2013 15:18:08 GMT -5
Ooooh....fun topic. Once I get done with feedback for Vertigo and Ryan, I will delve into this.
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Post by murphy42782 on Jun 16, 2013 16:51:04 GMT -5
Rick Martel isnt more famous per say, he had world title reign in the awa, its just that he got over in the north east earlier without needing a tacky heel gimmick.
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Post by JoshiQ on Jun 16, 2013 16:57:59 GMT -5
I'd say Backlund would be the one that has done far more in this Universe than real life. I don't even know what he was doing in the mid '80s, and here has had multiple World Title reigns. And he has many years left. Like you said, he could be the Ric Flair of this Universe.
I do think that Ric Flair will eventually hit it big, but he probably isn't going to be the 17 time World Champion or whatever he was. Still, he has definitely underperformed so far. If he hadn't quit on Ryan, he'd be a lot bigger right now. When he came into the NWF, it was impossible to throw him into the World Title picture since I had Hogan's first run as a face to deal with.
Greg Valentine has surpassed what he did in real life, IMO. A World Title reign that lasted over a year, and has been one of the top stars in the NWF since its inception.
Savage is definitely more famous right now than he was in 1985. Don't know if we will be able to say that later or not.
Hogan is a tough one. I try to book him somewhat like he was in real life, but I also don't plan on feeding him monster heel after monster heel to build him up. I'd prefer his challengers have slightly more character. To do so, he has to look slightly weaker than he was in real life. But most of his angles in the mid '80s were built around him losing a match via countout or DQ and coming back later to win the match.
I think Paul Orndorff is about the same. Martel could be argued either way. Andre the Giant would be one less popular simply because he hasn't had much air time. Maybe he's hugely popular in Japan right now?
Snuka is also far more popular. Although his drug problems finally caught up with him. Funk and Piper are probably similar. Piper got his World Title reign, but don't know if he's any more popular than he was in real life. He also didn't get on MTV since he was with NWF when GCW ran Super Cade.
Lawler is probably more famous, but it might actually be hurting his ability to the TOP star of an organization. NWF is bigger than Memphis, but he also can't be the top dog here.
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Post by LillaThrilla on Jun 16, 2013 17:21:31 GMT -5
I think Flair jumping promotions in the early 80s instead of the early 90s really hurt him. I think he still could become very big as IRL (although maybe not 10+ World Titles big), but just not as early. The Horsemen kicked of very nicely.
Roddy Piper is a somewhat bigger deal here, but we'll see where he hands after his recent departure from NWF.
Stan Hansen has to be in the discussion here too. He's I think 2 World Title reigns (albiet brief ones) and has been in many major fueds, whereas IRL nearly all of his notable accomplishments came in Japan.
Andre the Giant seems like strictly a fun novelty act here and nowhere near getting inducted into anybody's HoF (at least not in the US).
Greg Valentine is much more successful. I don't think he was ever a main event guy IRL.
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Post by snabbit888 on Jun 16, 2013 18:20:55 GMT -5
I agree with the assessment of Backlund. He's become a much bigger deal here than in real life. Not that his real life run was bad - he was a successful World champ and had a successful resurgence in the 90s - but here he has been great. Honestly, I've had so much fun with his character, and especially the partnership, feud, and again partnership as heels with Jimmy Snuka. That's been my favorite arc I've ever done. If he keeps re-signing with me, I honestly can see Backlund sticking around with me well into the 90s. He's Ric Flair right now.
Flair has been disappointing. Part of it was my fault, because I had trouble booking him early. I think I had finally gotten around to making it work, and then he quit on me while World champ. In a bit of "behind-the-curtain" news, Flair would still be World champ now had he not quit. I wanted him to get that really long reign in, but it just didn't work out.
Martel I think has done more so far. I know he was an AWA World champion, but by that point, AWA was largely a shell of itself in terms of notoriety.
Greg Valentine is someone who I'd say is way ahead of the game too. He had a great World Title reign, and even if he fits into the mold of what he did in real life from this point on, he will always have that successful reign to hang his hat on.
Andre's a tough one. We haven't used him much because he's just really hard to book. I see why he bounced around from promotion to promotion for most of his career in real life. We'll see where he goes, but honestly, I agree with the assessment that he will go down as more of a strict novelty act in this universe than anything.
Hogan is slightly less big than he was, but his character has more depth. He's not just beating monsters left and right. I think it's going to help him a lot more in the long run. He might not ever be seen as the mega star here, but I also think his character won't get nearly as stale either. It will be interesting to see what directions he takes.
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Post by cardsflyinhigh on Jun 16, 2013 22:26:35 GMT -5
I think you should throw Butch Reed in the group of those having more success here than in real life. In NWF Reed had a main event feud with Hogan and is the United States Champion. I don't think he reached anywhere near that high in WWF or NWA. Certainly not at this time.
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Post by mdale2k on Jun 17, 2013 10:41:40 GMT -5
Piper is interesting. He clearly garnered more "fame" in the real world, however his World Title reign has surpassed any reigns he had.
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Post by LillaThrilla on Jun 17, 2013 12:06:58 GMT -5
One thing that's different about fame here is that despite the obvious Supercade = Wrestlemania parallel (complete with the rock-n-wrestling stuff) not only is Hogan in the GCWverse equivilent of IRL Hogan, but really nobody is.
Who was closest Hogan equivilent at Supercade? Dusty Rhodes. He didn't show up suddenly and explode onto the scene like Hogan did; he's been a main event guy in GCW for years and doesn't have the larger-than-life persona (or impressive physique) that Hogan did.
On the other hand, Hogan has been a 10 instead of an 11 in NWF. I agree he'll probably last much longer that way, but at the same time he's probably not going to get the same kind of main stream exposure or acting gigs he did IRL (and I don't think Mr. T has shown up?). Hogan has been a great main eventer for NWF and helped NWF be much more a serious competitor to GCW than JCP/NWA was to WWF at this time, but GCW still comes across as the more prestigious organization.
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Post by vertigo on Jun 17, 2013 12:47:02 GMT -5
I'd include Greg Gagne and Tommy Rich. Gagne got over huge as a heel in this Universe and is far and away the most memorable United States Champion, for me at least. And Tommy Rich for the fact that he's a Horseman original.
And I'll just throw this out there, I envision NWF closer to WWF's product and GCW closer to NWA's at this time. Although GCW is doing the rock 'n wrestling and has a much longer lineage, it's headlined by the rugged, hard hitting, traditional wrestlers of old like a Stan Hansen, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, Bob F'n Backlund. No flashy gimmicks there. Nothing that screams main stream media. But NWF's got Hogan on top, ultra flashy personalities of Savage and Flair, the Rock n' Roll of the Freebirds, and the over top gimmick of Orndorff and Graham, and so many other gimmicks.
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Post by snabbit888 on Jun 20, 2013 14:46:52 GMT -5
Another one I thought of that's a bit more obscure is Luke Graham. His career in real life was fine, but not exactly what you'd consider legendary status. I feel his GCW Universe career far exceeded his real life accomplishments. He held 8 championships, including two lengthy World Title runs, and was arguably my most dominant wrestlers of the late 60s/early 70s. I'd put him in the Hall of Fame here.
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Post by JoshiQ on Jun 20, 2013 15:27:14 GMT -5
And I'll just throw this out there, I envision NWF closer to WWF's product and GCW closer to NWA's at this time. Although GCW is doing the rock 'n wrestling and has a much longer lineage, it's headlined by the rugged, hard hitting, traditional wrestlers of old like a Stan Hansen, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, Bob F'n Backlund. No flashy gimmicks there. Nothing that screams main stream media. But NWF's got Hogan on top, ultra flashy personalities of Savage and Flair, the Rock n' Roll of the Freebirds, and the over top gimmick of Orndorff and Graham, and so many other gimmicks. I do know that the original idea was always that Ryan was the WWF and I was WCW. The only problem has been that Ryan has had trouble hanging on to some of the bigger names. And the wrestling style of his guys lends to a more NWA style compared to the guys I have. It is kind of neat since it is taking a slightly different path than any of us could have expected. And as WWA progresses, is it possible they turn into an alternative (ECW) or more of a AWA group that has talent but never seems to be able to hold onto them? Or even grow in popularity enough to feel they have overcome one of the big two. Cool stuff going on right now.
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