Post by kingofoldschool on Aug 28, 2018 15:01:04 GMT -5
So I was playing around with the double reverse chinlock (aka the Randy Orton special) in order to see if I could add a greater degree of realism to matches (better pacing etc.), as this move is essentially a rest hold.
I checked the no rope break field (because when is that ever broken via the ropes?) and it was working quite well, in that the wrestler trapped in the hold would fight their way out of it or break with a back suplex. However, it then began resulting in matches ending due to the wrestler submitting or passing out in the hold, despite the move not having "may end match" checked.
I have discussed with Oliver and he confirmed that if any submission hold which is designated as "can't end match" ends a match, you either booked it that way (you wanted it) or it's a bug. And in this case, it has to be the latter.
However, Oliver also stated that he never envisioned this flag for submission moves, as by his "definition" of what moves go in, this case could never occur. There were never supposed to be rest holds in TNM as the engine doesn't account for them.
For those making exports, please be careful with the damage you assign to such moves. Even 20 is really too much, given that the damage "ticks" and you're making it MORE difficult to get out by taking away options. So on average, the wrestler will take a lot more damage from the move than was supposed to happen in Oliver’s design.
As a result, I have decided to no longer include moves like this in the movesets of my wrestler export files. It creates an imbalance as it stands right now. If Oliver created a "rest hold" category for moves like this (which is an option), it would lead to me (and others) adding "padding" moves to wrestler records which then throw off the entire model even more. It creates a situation where a guy whose style relies heavily on rest holds has a much smaller chance of winning a match. Right now, his chances are elevated, because rest holds tick as legit submission moves.
Starting with my most recent WWE exports, I am revising the movesets to remove all use created rest holds (armbar submission, Japanese stranglehold, neck crank, nerve hold, etc etc). The WWE updates should be up on TNM UK later today.
I checked the no rope break field (because when is that ever broken via the ropes?) and it was working quite well, in that the wrestler trapped in the hold would fight their way out of it or break with a back suplex. However, it then began resulting in matches ending due to the wrestler submitting or passing out in the hold, despite the move not having "may end match" checked.
I have discussed with Oliver and he confirmed that if any submission hold which is designated as "can't end match" ends a match, you either booked it that way (you wanted it) or it's a bug. And in this case, it has to be the latter.
However, Oliver also stated that he never envisioned this flag for submission moves, as by his "definition" of what moves go in, this case could never occur. There were never supposed to be rest holds in TNM as the engine doesn't account for them.
For those making exports, please be careful with the damage you assign to such moves. Even 20 is really too much, given that the damage "ticks" and you're making it MORE difficult to get out by taking away options. So on average, the wrestler will take a lot more damage from the move than was supposed to happen in Oliver’s design.
As a result, I have decided to no longer include moves like this in the movesets of my wrestler export files. It creates an imbalance as it stands right now. If Oliver created a "rest hold" category for moves like this (which is an option), it would lead to me (and others) adding "padding" moves to wrestler records which then throw off the entire model even more. It creates a situation where a guy whose style relies heavily on rest holds has a much smaller chance of winning a match. Right now, his chances are elevated, because rest holds tick as legit submission moves.
Starting with my most recent WWE exports, I am revising the movesets to remove all use created rest holds (armbar submission, Japanese stranglehold, neck crank, nerve hold, etc etc). The WWE updates should be up on TNM UK later today.
) and Wikipedia. Either way, there are two distinct moves involved. Yours, I think, is definitely a rest hold and should be 0 damage, while mine is probably more borderline and might merit 5-10 damage.