Calculating Workrate

[LillaThrilla]

When you're making exports for either real or fantasy wrestlers is there any formula you use for determining the wrestler's Work Rate? Or do you just go with "what feels right"?

I know there have been a few discussions over the years of (and I have tried brainstorming) some kind of formula based on how many moves a wrestler has, what Styles they have checked, and a few other criteria (Stamina, No Selling, having corner/combo moves, etc) but I don't think any good conclusion has ever come of it.

If you're not trying to use a formula and just going with what "feels right" do you consider relative to other noteable wrestlers? Uber-technicians (Benoit? Bret Hart in his prime?) and highly skilled puro guys (Misawa in his prime?) are easy 100s. What about someone not quite a wrestling god but still a pretty good worker capable of a 5 star match like The Rock? Or Steve Austin in his prime who has probably had a couple 5 star mat but was mostly a brawler?

I've seen alot of high flying spot-monkeys around 90 or more. Should be higher, lower, or is about right?

I think I've seen Undertaker around 80-85 which is probably the upper limit for big guys.

Lousy guys like Hogan and Warrior are probably around 50. Late career Road Warriors too? Truly awful guys who are offensively bad are probably around 30-40, which I think is the lowest I've seen in an export. I'd put the current Nasty Boys down there. I think I've also seen Jim Duggan and Vincent from their later WCW days there.

What kind of workrate do you give someone who is purely a garbage brawler but good at it? I'm thinking of some of the better ECW brawlers who didn't have technical or high flying skills. 60ish?

Thoughts?

[mamushi]

I always just sort of go on feel. I use what I've seen other wrestlers put at for a sort of guidline to help me along. I tend to think of the helper helper description that's right in the sim: "How hard do they work to give the fans what they want."

I do tend to try and save "100s" for the rare guy that stands well above and beyond the pack in terms of caring about his in-ring product.

But then I also don't make virtually any real life exports of my own, so it's a bit less pertinent as who is going to argue that I've assigned stats incorrectly for someone that exists in my head.

Some kind of hard standardized scale would be nice though. For charisma too.

[snabbit888]

Where it gets tricky it when it's a horrible in-ring worker with high charisma. Because like Liller said, in-ring wise, Hogan and Warrior would be like a 50. But two 50s workers are going to give you negative star matches almost all of the time. And Hogan vs. Warrior at WM 6 was a pretty damn good match, all things considered. Not the best wrestling of all time, but not a match in the negatives for sure.

I think it's best to just go on feel. There's really no way to make a scale because everyone has different opinions. Someone like Triple H is a prime example. You ask around the internet, he's either considered a great worker and would be put in the 80s or low 90s, or he is boring and a cancer, and is one of the worst wrestlers ever.

So I say just edit an export to how it best suits your feel for it.

[LillaThrilla]

Mar 19, 2010 12:04:24 GMT -5 snabbit888 said:

Where it gets tricky it when it's a horrible in-ring worker with high charisma. Because like Liller said, in-ring wise, Hogan and Warrior would be like a 50. But two 50s workers are going to give you negative star matches almost all of the time. And Hogan vs. Warrior at WM 6 was a pretty damn good match, all things considered. Not the best wrestling of all time, but not a match in the negatives for sure.

Hogan-Warrior not only featured two wrestlers with high Charisma, but I've heard it was also well booked and rehearesed repeatedly in advance.

I would be curious to see if you took two wrestlers with Workrate 50, Charisma 100, and Heat 10 and booked the hell out of a 25 minute match what kind of rating you would get.

Mar 19, 2010 12:04:24 GMT -5 snabbit888 said:

I think it's best to just go on feel. There's really no way to make a scale because everyone has different opinions. Someone like Triple H is a prime example. You ask around the internet, he's either considered a great worker and would be put in the 80s or low 90s, or he is boring and a cancer, and is one of the worst wrestlers ever.

I hate him, I hate his character, I think he's been pushed far more than he deserves because he's boinking Stephie, I think he's been lousy at times when hampered by or coming back from quad/knee problems, and if I were to watch Wrestlemania I would cheer for Sheamus against HHH.

But despite my vehement hate for HHH, I don't think most of his in-ring work is terrible.

[snabbit888]

Well I'd say you're in the minority there, Liller. More than likely if you hate a wrestler, you'll underrate his skills, whereas if you like a wrestler, you'll overrate his skills. I know I do it. Hell, I push Lance Storm to the moon in almost all of my circuits because he's one of my favorite wrestlers ever.

[rey619]

This is really difficult, but a good advice is to see what other, comparable wrestlers in the database have. I exclusively create women's exports these days, so most of the girls will be around 70-80, with the better ones breaking 80 and maybe some of the best in the world hitting 90 (Japanese mostly).

It's also difficult to gauge how important charisma and heat is to a star rating.

[psz]

Early on, I must have TOTALLY misunderstood the Work Rate setting when creating characters, because looking back, they just don't add up to what I consider Work Rate NOW.


I think, back on the Simplenet boards, when this was discussed, someone had asked if work rate was "The in-ring talent of a wrestler" or whether it was the "Ability to work WELL in multiple matches in a short time (IE: Booking 1 card to handle four weeks of TV, and thus having the same guy in up to four matches in one card)"


I'm guessing, looking at some of those TNM 6.2 chars, that I must have thought it was the latter ;->

[LillaThrilla]

Mar 20, 2010 17:54:14 GMT -5 psz said:

or whether it was the "Ability to work WELL in multiple matches in a short time (IE: Booking 1 card to handle four weeks of TV, and thus having the same guy in up to four matches in one card)"

I'm pretty sure that's one of the things Stamina is for.

[psz]

Along with how long in one match a person could perform "at peak", and the likelyhood of injury due to overuse, yeah.

As I said, this was WAAAAAY back in the day ;->

[BeerGeek]

I do, but sometimes I make typos when it comes to workrate, like I did in my first edition of my fantasy pack (thanks liller)

Generally big men don't have high workrates and stamina, although there are some exceptions like Bigelow, Vader, Mike Awesome, etc.

Generally smaller guys (for the most part with the exception of some outright glorified backyard spotmonkeys) generally have high workrates

Right now I'm working on a second fantasy pack, which will include some updates to the wrestlers from the original pack, such as heel/face status, finisher names, etc.) The new pack will also include a list of move names for the wrestlers to use with the Special Move Wizard plugin (if you indeed have said plugin)