Moves Questions

[LillaThrilla]

I don't think we've had one yet on these forums. This would be the place to ask "what is that move?" or "what is the TNM equivilent of so-and-so's signature move?"

For reference:

Peter's Move List For TNM UK
petabr.freehostia.com/TNMMoveList.htm

My lists on TNM 3:16. Me and Peter don't always agree.
joshism.net/tnm/moves.html
joshism.net/tnm/dives.html

[LillaThrilla]

Started this thread because I had some questions. ;D

1) Batista's new submission move the Batista Bite. I haven't seen it yet, but wikipedia lists it as a scissored armbar. Is it already covered by another move that would be in TNM? Description makes it sound kinda like a kimura / armlock hammerlock to me since you're applying holds to both the opponent's arms.

2) I've seen a "back roll neck lock" refered to in various video games especially in a MMA/UFC context. What the heck is it?

3) For that matter what is a "front neck lock" which I realize is on my Moves list linked above? I just found a clip on youtube that makes it look like just a guillotine choke...

Thanks!

[psz]

1) I've seen Batista's move also referred to as the Stu Lock (named after Stu Hart, who apparently used it, or something similar, to "stretch the rookies" in the Dungeon). You're behind your opponent, and have his arms crucifixed, while laying on your side and having their neck locked. Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIyxXfLnSog

2) *IF* it's the move I'm thinking of, it's also called an Alligator Roll or Anaconda Choke. Basically involves rolling your opponent, and using the momentum to get you into position for an extremely tight ground guillotine. *IF* it's the move I'm thinking of. Videos: www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pGDYnmxZKU , www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwf9x_20DJA

3) Front Face/Neck Lock == Guillotine, yes.

[LillaThrilla]

Does/did anybody ever submit to the airplane spin or was it really just more a transition/resthold thing where you spun the guy around and dropped him?

[kingofoldschool]

As far as the Batista Bite goes, I think that the Rings of Saturn is similar enough in TNM.

I think Sal Rinauro submitted to an airplane spin in CHIKARA once, or maybe it was to the giant swing. He did once get pinned with a headlock takedown though, so there you go.

[King Munshun]

May 30, 2010 16:05:41 GMT -5 kingofoldschool said:

As far as the Batista Bite goes, I think that the Rings of Saturn is similar enough in TNM.

Thought it was a double armbar submission?

[LillaThrilla]

Jun 5, 2010 6:23:11 GMT -5 King Munshun said:

May 30, 2010 16:05:41 GMT -5 kingofoldschool said:

As far as the Batista Bite goes, I think that the Rings of Saturn is similar enough in TNM.

Thought it was a double armbar submission?

I looked at some internet video regarding this. Batista Bite isn't too different from the Rings Of Saturn; the exact way you're pinning the second arm is a bit different but it seems pretty close to me.

Which then leads to the question: what is a double armbar?

I always thought a double armbar was the Rings Of Saturn, more or less. I recall a Perry Saturn export from a decade ago listing it as such. But Peter on TNM UK has Rings Of Saturn as a seperate move and lists double armbar as something more akin to Danielson's Cattle Mutilation.

However, seeing the Cattle Mutilation, it looks like a double chickenwing to me, not a double armbar. (FWIW, Wikipedia agrees, at least right now.) However a chickenwing is normally standing ala Jazz's Bitch Lock, so Cattle Mutilation does need to be other kind of move. ("grounded double chickenwing" seems like a lousy name)

[rey619]

While we're on the subject of moves... I have a couple of questions

1. When a wrester hangs limp on the second rope.. and the opponent runs and jumps unto his back.. what is it called?

2. Is shoulderblock a move that everybody has? I found it weird that none of my exports had the move listed, but they are still doing it in their matchs.

[LillaThrilla]

Jun 5, 2010 13:19:51 GMT -5 rey619 said:

2. Is shoulderblock a move that everybody has? I found it weird that none of my exports had the move listed, but they are still doing it in their matchs.

Yeah I think everybody can basic punches and kicks and I've see a few shoulderblocks in there too. Maybe only if they have the Powerhouse style? (purely a guess)

[Crpls]

Batista Bite is just the Nagata Lock III, which isn't in TNM (unless you imported an updated Yuji that has it.)

[LillaThrilla]

What is a Manhattan Suplex?

[Crpls]

It's some kind of backward suplex, I'm just not sure exactly what.

[LillaThrilla]

STO vs side slam / Soviet suplex / Rock Bottom: are they similar enough to be one move in TNM or do you think they should be seperate?

FWIW, I've always lumped them together but Peter keeps them seperate for TNM UK.

[tommybrownell]

Yeah, but Peter's exports murder my database because of all the insanely duplicated moves.

Wait...an STO isn't a Rock Bottom or a Soviet Suplex...side slam is so vague as to almost be useless. Is that like the Boss Man Slam/Black Hole? Is that like Nash scooping up someone on his side and dropping them?

[LillaThrilla]

Jun 24, 2010 19:55:33 GMT -5 tommybrownell said:

Yeah, but Peter's exports murder my database because of all the insanely duplicated moves.

I know Peter seperates moves more than I do - perhaps too much given TNM not liking more than 800 moves in a database?

Jun 24, 2010 19:55:33 GMT -5 tommybrownell said:

Wait...an STO isn't a Rock Bottom or a Soviet Suplex...side slam is so vague as to almost be useless. Is that like the Boss Man Slam/Black Hole? Is that like Nash scooping up someone on his side and dropping them?

Bossman Slam and Nash's move you are refering to is a sidewalk slam.

...which looks NOTHING like a spinebuster, which is why everyone hates Tony Schiavone.

As I understand it, an STO is essentially two guys facing each other standing side by side. Then the attacker does a combination clothesline-legsweep to knock the guy down on his back.

With a Rock Bottom, you stand the exact same way but instead of a clothesline-legsweep the attacker hooks his arm across the victim's chest and sort of under their far arm, lifts them up and slams them down on their back. Same start, same finish, slight difference in how you get there.

[tommybrownell]

But...the Bossman Slam and Nash's move aren't the same thing, either.

I say STO and Rock Bottom are different. I can do an STO in a given match, I can't do a Rock Bottom...=P

[LillaThrilla]

Tommy, you should send me an export of yourself / Great American Bolo so I can put it up on TNM 3:16.

As to our move controversy (times like this are why I've spent years compiling and maintaining this thing)...

*investigates on YouTube*

So it seems there's been an error in my Moves List for a long long time nobody pointed out, with Bossman Slam and Matt Hardy's Side Effect incorrectly listed as sidewalk slams for whatever reason (I'd never actually seen either). They should actually be side slams.

Sidewalk slam is definitely Nash's move: pick the guy up next to you and drop him on his back as you sit or fall down. (I guess you could call it a side backbreaker? Though that might get confusing with a side slam backbreaker aka Sheamus' Irish Curse)

Boss Man Slam = Side Effect = Rock Bottom = Book End = Muso

Which is also the same thing as a Soviet suplex - I think. I've actually never heard the term "Soviet suplex" used outside of TNM.

Abyss' Black Hole Slam would be a swinging side slam.

Whether or not it's similiar enough to an STO is another matter. You say you can't do a Rock Bottom - I guess it's a weight issue then? Which would be relevant...

FWIW, Wikipedia has this to say:
The name "sidewalk slam" is also often incorrectly used for a one-armed, spinning side, or swinging side slam.

[JoshiQ]

The Boss Man Slam isn't like the Rock Bottom though really. The Boss Man Slam is more like the Black Hole Slam. Bossman would always whip his opponents into the ropes before hitting and on the rebound would catch them with like a clothesline across the chest, lift them up, and slam them in to the mat with him leaving his feet.

So basically the same ending as the Rock Bottom, but a totally different setup.

[LillaThrilla]

Okay, moving the Boss Man Slam to swinging side slam instead then.

[LillaThrilla]

Non-slam question: what is a savate kick really, especially for TNM purposes?

I can't find a video on YouTube nor an internet description that makes it anything other than a superkick, a kick to the head, or a kick to the midsection.

[JoshiQ]

I always just assumed it was the superkick. That's what Stan Lane did all the time during the Midnight Express days and it was always called a savate kick.

[tommybrownell]

It is non-existent, as I recall. Eric Bischoff, after his WCW face turn, went on an extended rant one day on commentary about how the savate kick is a BS term.

But yeah, it's a superkick.

Savannah Jack used the Savate Kick back in Mid-South the same time Chris Adams was using the Superkick..and then they teamed up.

I'll try to clean up my Bolo export and pass it along...=)

[rey619]

Jun 24, 2010 20:42:50 GMT -5 tommybrownell said:

I say STO and Rock Bottom are different. I can do an STO in a given match, I can't do a Rock Bottom...=P

My finisher is actually a Rock Bottom variant - the difference is that I bump on my ass and not my front (so it's actually more similar to Matt Hardy's Side Effect). Nobody in my wrestling promotion have heard of the term Soviet Suplex either. Isn't Uranage a different name for Rock Bottom as well?

[LillaThrilla]

Jun 25, 2010 5:36:48 GMT -5 rey619 said:

Isn't Uranage a different name for Rock Bottom as well?

Yes and no. According to Wikipedia:

Side slam
This move is commonly and incorrectly referred to as an ura-nage slam, or simply ura-nage. This name is an incorrect Americanization of the name for ura-nage, which, translated directly from the Japanese, means, literally, "throw to behind". It has erroneously been translated as "reverse side throw", which is incorrect; the word "ura" means "behind".

Ura-nage
Also known as a sambo suplex or side suplex...The name ura-nage (or uranage) is incorrectly but commonly used to refer to a regular side slam and though the name in fact comes from a Judo throw, that throw resembles a saito suplex more than the professional wrestling ura-naga.

I think if you see a uranage in a TNM export they are probably (incorrectly) refering to a Rock Bottom though since I think a side suplex has been in TNM7 since the beginning.

[kingofoldschool]

Oliver told me that in the game the sidewalk slam is Bossman's finisher. Also, the following move in TNM is called the side suplex:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=amOaIr-A6mI

STO and side slam/Rock Bottom are completely different moves, which is why they are listed as separate in my database. I've kept the Soviet suplex name as this is what it was called in TNM originally.