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Post by snabbit888 on Jan 29, 2013 14:55:13 GMT -5
Decided to try to get some discussion going today about an issue I've had some problems in the past. When booking your circuit, how often does a wrestler's real-life accomplishments/push/position/etc. affect the way in which you book him? For instance, is there any wrestler out there that you can't see ever being a main eventer in a circuit because of how they were positioned in real life? On the flip side of that, is there anyone you can't ever see being a low or midcarder because they were so engrained in the main event in real life?
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Post by cardsflyinhigh on Jan 29, 2013 16:10:59 GMT -5
Yeah it definitely happens. I think with me though, its more a case of personal bias. I havent run into any instances in my TNA circuit, but in the past, Ive held someone down just cause I dont like their real life character.
Lets just say I was doing a WWE circuit in the past few years. I really don't like John Cena and that would likely come into play while booking my circuit. No matter what, he would never be a world champion for me just because I dont like him in real life.
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Post by vertigo on Jan 29, 2013 16:48:44 GMT -5
Real-life always comes to mind when booking. It's our perception of a wrestler that made us want to use them in our circuits to begin with.
I couldn't have Santino ever being a main eventer. And I could never see Brock Lesnar being anything less than a beast.
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Post by snabbit888 on Jan 29, 2013 17:16:12 GMT -5
Do you guys think that you could buy someone like that as a main eventer in someone else's circuit? For instance, you mentioned Santino, Russ. Would you buy Santino as World champion in another circuit, provided the build was done properly and it didn't just happen out of nowhere.
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Post by vertigo on Jan 29, 2013 17:52:20 GMT -5
Well, that's the thing. If someone started a circuit dated January 29, 2013 and Santino beat CM Punk clean in the main event, then no. I wouldn't buy it.
But if someone booked Santino right after he beat Umaga for the Intercontinental Championship and continued to build him up to be a legitimate wrestler rather than the comedy routine he's doing now, then yes, I could. They would have to be a very good writer, but yes, it's possible.
Kind of funny actually because if 10 years ago someone booked CM Punk to win the WWE title in their circuit in 2013 I'd say it was far fetched.
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Post by murphy42782 on Jan 29, 2013 18:09:50 GMT -5
I got two words. Greg Gagne. Never in a million years would I ever consider him more then cannon fodder, but NWF Gagne was awesome. It really takes a certain suspension of disbelief, but we got to "witness" Greg in some high profile spots and through some good writing and creative angles anyone can be a star. I think somethungs more then name dictate placement. Like Brock Lesnar should never be less the a main event monster because his talent in ring and size make him so. Not because his name is brock and he headlined cards all over the world.
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Post by JoshiQ on Jan 29, 2013 23:24:50 GMT -5
Awesome to know Gagne would be used as an example of being able to book around the perception of him.
When I started with Gagne I had him as part of a face tag team with Brunzell that was going to job to most of the upper heel tag teams. When Canadian Air debuted I realized that Brunzell and Gagne would no longer be the best high flyers in the circuit. So they mentored Canadian Air. Then the heel turn had to come and I thought they'd just turn into a mid-card heel tag team that wouldn't amount to much. But I started to like them and so did most of the people giving feedback.
The eventual breakup was necessary, and using Verne Gagne was an easy option. And it all continued from there.
Gagne was never supposed to be more than one half of a face tag team that jobbed to guys like the East-West Connection. But he actually out-performed my own perception of him. Still don't know how he did that.
I'd like to think that perception of certain guys can always be undone. But I'll have a hard time reading a circuit that has Hogan jobbing quickly and often unless it's set before 1983. Even then I'd have my doubts. Same with guys like Andre, Bruno...To a lesser extent guys like Cena, Triple H, and Austin.
I actually have an easier time seeing a guy like Santino winning the World Title (if booked properly) than Hogan jobbing in six minutes to Shane Helms. I guess it all comes down to the timeframe of when the circuit is and if the writer is able to make it believable.
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Post by cardsflyinhigh on Jan 30, 2013 3:34:39 GMT -5
It definitely all comes down to the writing. Good writing can make anyone a believable champion. If someone, anyone has the proper build, proper storyline, I could totally buy into anyone as champion.
For instance in GCW, I've only known Arn Anderson to be a mid-card title holder, tag team guy and enforcer to Flair. Honestly he's kind of hard to picture as a world champion, but the way you book him in GCW, knowing what your capable of, I could totally buy him with the gold.
Santino was thrown out earlier as an example. I'd be willing to say there's even a way someone can start a circuit in present time and turn him into a champion depending on how its written. Call it the Norman Smiley approach. Back in the closing days of WCW, he was perhaps the last person you could see as a Hardcore champion. Yet he had a fluke victory to win the belt, then some outside interference help in a defense, then another fluke win. Then got a winning streak, got confidence and pretty soon, he built up some stature and actually became a pretty good hardcore champ.
And dear God, did I just use end of the road WCW as an example of good writing? Perhaps maybe just forget what I said.
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Post by magiccitydawg on Jan 30, 2013 10:12:58 GMT -5
I like to run unbooked cards for the first three or four cards, and go with what I see. I have started a little more booking than normal in MWF. In the tournament, which all of my tournaments are unbooked, Arn Anderson became world champion, and Robert Gibson was #1 by virtue of his finish in the tournament. Arn Anderson could have been a legit world champion in real life. I could see Gibson being a challenger in real life.
I want to bring in Tensi on down the road and book him as he should be booked, as a monster heel, much like Vader in WCW and Japan. That is what kills me about WWE. They have a true talent and book him the way they did this past Monday night. I think that my booking style is take what Vinnie Mac does and flip it.
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Post by snabbit888 on Jan 30, 2013 11:17:35 GMT -5
I like to run unbooked cards for the first three or four cards, and go with what I see. I have started a little more booking than normal in MWF. In the tournament, which all of my tournaments are unbooked, Arn Anderson became world champion, and Robert Gibson was #1 by virtue of his finish in the tournament. Arn Anderson could have been a legit world champion in real life. I could see Gibson being a challenger in real life. I want to bring in Tensi on down the road and book him as he should be booked, as a monster heel, much like Vader in WCW and Japan. That is what kills me about WWE. They have a true talent and book him the way they did this past Monday night. I think that my booking style is take what Vinnie Mac does and flip it. They tried to book Tensai like a monster heel when they brought him back and the fans shit on it. Last night, as stupid as it was, was the biggest reaction Tensai has gotten in his return, so, take that for what it's worth. |
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Post by JoshiQ on Jan 30, 2013 12:58:19 GMT -5
Heh. You said taint.
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Post by wickedrex1 on Jun 13, 2013 13:43:26 GMT -5
Absolutely, yes. My booking is tainted by the real-life perception I have of the wrestlers in my circuit. That's why it seems like I'm just recycling the same people in and out of the Heavyweight Title picture. Though, if I can give myself credit, I am trying to think of ideas on how to "broaden" the range of people I use for the main title picture. However, that leads me to needing to figure out how to solve another glaring issue I have: how to raise someone's "status" within my circuit. How long does the push last? Is there even a limit for that? Those are some of the questions I ask myself...
I've seen you guys be able to do fairly easily, in my opinion. I don't know if any of you have struggled with the same issue or not, but I'd like to figure it out so I can make the HWL a little more interesting/shocking (even for myself), and try to be a little more creative.
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Post by snabbit888 on Jun 13, 2013 17:54:57 GMT -5
Absolutely, yes. My booking is tainted by the real-life perception I have of the wrestlers in my circuit. That's why it seems like I'm just recycling the same people in and out of the Heavyweight Title picture. Though, if I can give myself credit, I am trying to think of ideas on how to "broaden" the range of people I use for the main title picture. However, that leads me to needing to figure out how to solve another glaring issue I have: how to raise someone's "status" within my circuit. How long does the push last? Is there even a limit for that? Those are some of the questions I ask myself... I've seen you guys be able to do fairly easily, in my opinion. I don't know if any of you have struggled with the same issue or not, but I'd like to figure it out so I can make the HWL a little more interesting/shocking (even for myself), and try to be a little more creative. Honestly, it depends on the angle you run if you ask me. For some wrestlers, you need to give them a series of wins to up their standing. For others, just having them in important or interesting stories can do it. Like right now, I think I've done a good job of building Barry Windham up in GCW, but he hasn't really won anything. Just a couple of really good showings against the World champion and his credibility went up. Now I just have to follow through and keep him relevant. And even sometimes, just picking someone and going, "I'm pushing this guy!" is all you need to do. |
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Post by cardsflyinhigh on Jun 13, 2013 18:00:14 GMT -5
I agree, any guy that can score some clean wins over a number of quality opponents, or even just someone that is in a feud with established main eventers can be lifted to that status. In my TNA circuit I've been building up Kaz, who in real life has been a perennial midcarder, by putting him in feuds with Booker T , Kurt Angle and AJ Styles.
As for how long a push can last, I'd say as long as the wrestler doesn't become stale, or it seems like he's treading water.
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