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Post by seanzarelli on Jul 8, 2013 13:31:27 GMT -5
I would definitely donate to this, especially since my TNM has gone apeshit with DosBOX and won't even load now. I too don't read the matches, so, I don't care about the Play by Play.
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Post by gentlemanjeff on Jul 8, 2013 13:45:28 GMT -5
I love the looks of this--great start. I'd be happy to donate. I'm also very happy to help work out the internal logic of the game. We could all do that right here, make it an open-source community system.
Definitely agree, don't need moves. I suppose if we want to get so detailed, each wrestler having a set of signature moves would be useful for picking endings. Main event Bret Hart isn't going to end any match with a back suplex, but he could end a match with a piledriver, a small package, a reverse cradle or a victory roll on top of his regular five moves of doom and the Sharpshooter. We may just want a list of "moves that can end a match."
For gimmick matches, we don't need independent logic for ladder matches versus cage matches versus falls count anywhere matches, but we could have a set of flags adjusted for all gimmick matches. For example, cage matches help brawlers put on better matches. Ladder matches help high-flyers put on better matches. They would also come up higher injury risks (non-kayfabe injury risk). That sort of thing.
And on and on.
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Post by gentlemanjeff on Jul 8, 2013 13:49:43 GMT -5
For example, let's say you're booking Razor vs. HBK for a ladder match at WMX. You might select the following:
Gimmick: Ladder match Length: Long
The ladder match would be in the database with a set of characteristics. It might be +1 for high-flyers (Michaels would have that characteristic), +.5 for brawlers (Ramon has that characteristic), +.5 on its own. It would also have a +1 injury risk. So Michaels/Ramon together get a +2 bump for the ladder match, but a slight increase in injury risk.
Being able to track heat between wrestlers would be great too--I believe TNM just uses the simple queue system (if they've recently fought and how many times they've recently fought). If that's too complicated, you could have a checkbox for "blow off match" that gives it a heat bump.
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Post by snabbit888 on Jul 8, 2013 13:54:21 GMT -5
I think the heat bump for blow-off match would have to be determined by how much heat was in the feud to begin with. The blow-off of Austin vs. McMahon is far greater than the blow-off of X-Pac vs. Jeff Jarrett, for instance.
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Post by Carlzilla on Jul 8, 2013 13:58:00 GMT -5
I love the looks of this--great start. I'd be happy to donate. I'm also very happy to help work out the internal logic of the game. We could all do that right here, make it an open-source community system.YES! Please, any suggestions about the inner workings is helpful. I'm a generally a fairly sloppy coder, so I will NEVER open source stuff, but I definitely value community input. Definitely agree, don't need moves. I suppose if we want to get so detailed, each wrestler having a set of signature moves would be useful for picking endings. Main event Bret Hart isn't going to end any match with a back suplex, but he could end a match with a piledriver, a small package, a reverse cradle or a victory roll on top of his regular five moves of doom and the Sharpshooter. We may just want a list of "moves that can end a match." Each wrestler will get 50 moves, just like TNM. The difference is that since we're not printing a match move by move, I can cut back on the amount of flags and such. If we're not reading a match, the only things that REALLY matters is which wrestler has the momentum, how much damage a move does, and can it end a match? Each wrestlers moves will be included in their data file, as opposed to a huge overarching database. Each wrestler can have separate data for each move. In other words, Bret Hart could end a match with a Piledriver, while someone who has NEVER ended a match with a piledriver but still used them would not. Or, in another example, Tito Santana would be able to finish with a figure-four, which he used as a finisher for ages, while others might have it in their moveset, but will never see it end a match. This also opens up situations where one wrestler has a particularly "deadly" form of the move, like Ric Flair's chops. His chops could do more damage than the chops given to say Brooklyn Brawler. For gimmick matches, we don't need independent logic for ladder matches versus cage matches versus falls count anywhere matches, but we could have a set of flags adjusted for all gimmick matches. For example, cage matches help brawlers put on better matches. Ladder matches help high-flyers put on better matches. They would also come up higher injury risks (non-kayfabe injury risk). That sort of thing. I agree with this. Since the mechanics of wrestling don't really change, regardless of the gimmick, some real simple flags would be the way to go.
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Post by gentlemanjeff on Jul 8, 2013 15:44:44 GMT -5
Do we need move damage? That's a kayfabe thing. Maybe an injury risk for each move. Otherwise the only thing I'd want deciding who wins a match is push.
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Post by Carlzilla on Jul 8, 2013 16:01:33 GMT -5
If everyone (or a majority of everyone) else feels the same way, I don't mind that at all. If that's the case, each wrestler will only need moves that could potentially end the match.
Basically taking out move damage means that unbooked matches will be decided based on a push equation and almost nothing else. If you're all OK with that, I think it's the most realistic solution, as as Jeff pointed out, move damage and things are totally kayfabe.
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Post by thesubverse on Jul 8, 2013 19:05:30 GMT -5
One thing I've noticed in my circuits is that if a wrestler is involved in an interview without a match, it's as if they're not appearing on the show at all. This can be pretty detrimental to contracts, if a wrestler has more talking segments than wrestling. Would it be possible to set up interview and promo segments like matches, where you actually select the wrestler from a list as appearing in the segment, so he's less likely get mad about not wrestling and quit on us in the middle of a big feud?
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Post by gentlemanjeff on Jul 8, 2013 19:13:38 GMT -5
Hehe. I love the idea of an indy guy beating Ric Flair in the simulator because he's got three dozen variations of a max damage burning hammer and a couple shooting star presses and all Flair does are low-damage chops.
I'm indifferent to the promo/angle question. I see value in it if the contact system looks at how often wrestlers are being used; if not no need for it.
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Post by snabbit888 on Jul 8, 2013 19:23:49 GMT -5
I agree that the ability to book wrestlers for talking segments would be nice. I would imagine this would have to work similar to TNM in that not being used would be a factor in determining if a wrestler quits or not.
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Post by Carlzilla on Jul 9, 2013 14:51:22 GMT -5
I'm posting this to get some input from everyone.
Now, here's a filled out one:
Is there anything else you'd like to see stats/info wise? I know the idea of "styles" was brought up in regards to match type modifiers, which I liked and added in, but are there any other styles I'm missing or you'd like to see added?
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nick
Enhancement Talent
Posts: 16
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Post by nick on Jul 9, 2013 15:04:43 GMT -5
Just want to say that I love what is going on here, and would be more than willing to donate to a project like this. And like one user said, Mac capability would be phenomenal, but wouldn't change my willingness to donate. This much simpler TNM would allow making "exports" so much quicker, and would really do everything we want it to do.
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Post by gentlemanjeff on Jul 9, 2013 15:21:22 GMT -5
Looks sharp. What's recognition?
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Post by rey619 on Jul 9, 2013 15:23:07 GMT -5
I really like the look of this, but the format is somewhat confusing to me.
What is Recognition, and how is that different than Push?
Could Diva be a style? Or would that be Old School? I'm not saying putting all girls into one style, just that the "scantily dressed models trying to wrestle" is more or less a style in itself. Could rather be a case of setting the Workrate really low though.
Any info on what the flags mean would be appreciated though.
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Post by Carlzilla on Jul 9, 2013 15:27:37 GMT -5
I really like the look of this, but the format is somewhat confusing to me. What is Recognition, and how is that different than Push? Could Diva be a style? Or would that be Old School? I'm not saying putting all girls into one style, just that the "scantily dressed models trying to wrestle" is more or less a style in itself. Could rather be a case of setting the Workrate really low though. Any info on what the flags mean would be appreciated though. I hate how TNM never took into account how "big" a wrestler was outside of Kayfabe. Push is a company based thing, and someone with a huge (90+) push in TNA or ROH might only get a 70 or so in WWE. This made it a really crappy way of determining how "big" a wrestler was in the hiring process. Recognition is how big your wrestler is in the wrestling world and beyond, and it will play a part in whether or not they agree to sign with your company, and stay with your company. I'll type a complete description of what each thing is later on. I need to run some errands now.
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Post by rey619 on Jul 9, 2013 15:53:02 GMT -5
Ah, that's great. So that means you have some sort of Promotion stats too, then? How big your promotion is.
If yes, will this be a static value, or can promotions move up and down in "status"? What will determine that, if finances are not to be included?
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Post by gentlemanjeff on Jul 9, 2013 16:53:47 GMT -5
I'm not necessarily vetoing recognition -- not that it's my program to veto -- but I think we oughta' make an effort to keep this in TNM7/sim land as opposed to EWR/game mode. Ya' know? Again, not saying that means I'm against recognition, just something to keep in mind if we start weighing things like finances and such.
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Post by Carlzilla on Jul 9, 2013 17:17:04 GMT -5
Yes. The promotions will have a "size" stat. I'm not sure if it'll rise and fall yet. I'm not sure I'd want to deal with it falling and then me losing all my talent or something stupid. But it would be cool to be running a small promotion and having stoke of luck and signing a big name...you know.
The wrestler stat is pretty much static. You can manually change it, but the program won't touch it.
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Post by Carlzilla on Jul 9, 2013 17:18:26 GMT -5
I'm not necessarily vetoing recognition -- not that it's my program to veto -- but I think we oughta' make an effort to keep this in TNM7/sim land as opposed to EWR/game mode. Ya' know? Again, not saying that means I'm against recognition, just something to keep in mind if we start weighing things like finances and such. No, no finances. It's more to keep guys like Hulk Hogan from signing with a promotion like Backyard Bonanza Wrestling. Or not even to keep him from doing it, but to make it REAL rare.
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Post by Carlzilla on Jul 9, 2013 17:39:13 GMT -5
I added two more flags to the wrestler files.
Male or Female
and
Diva style.
I've updated the file structure up there.
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Post by gentlemanjeff on Jul 9, 2013 18:52:48 GMT -5
Ha, male/female, doh. Good call.
I don't suppose mask would have a function, right?
I mean *it could*, but I don't think we want this thing to go to the level where it's only letting you book certain matches if certain flags are ticked, etc. Again, that'd be an EWR thing.
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Post by snabbit888 on Jul 9, 2013 19:38:34 GMT -5
Everything's looking good so far. I like the recognition thing, but I would say it should be a feature that can be ticked on and off if you want. Now I for one don't want Hogan wrestling in some backyard fed, but there might be a user out there who does. That's always what I've liked about TNM over TEW - the ability to use your imagination more on the booking side. I don't necessarily enjoy circuits where wrestlers from different eras are wrestling each other in their primes, but some people love that, which is the benefit of the TNM system. I'd hate to see that not be possible here.
Another thing I would personally love, although admittedly it is more aesthetic than anything, is an implementation of the Bio Manager plugin into this. I am a big fan of stats and histories, and would love to have an ability in the program to have a written bio of each wrestler available for me to look up in an encyclopedia of sorts. A quick way to check the feuds he's been in, alliances he's had, etc. And it would be nice to have it be a complete archive. The Bio Manager was great, but the problem was, once I deleted a wrestler from TNM, I lost the bio too within the program. Along these same lines, maybe the ability to set up a Hall of Fame in your circuit/universe too.
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Post by Carlzilla on Jul 9, 2013 21:11:02 GMT -5
All the basic ideas of my plugins for TNM will be implemented here. The Bio Manager (I'm glad you're getting use out of it. I'd love to see some of the export files sometime.)
Right now, my idea about recognition is that if you don't want to deal with it, set your fed size to maximum. That will give you no penalties for dealing with names that are bigger than your fed.
I can do a Hall of Fame. It's just a simple data file with probably 2 lines per entry...
Name Date of Induction
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Post by JoshiQ on Jul 9, 2013 21:16:15 GMT -5
Obviously this is a ways down the road, but I'm hoping if you set your fed to maximum it is still sometimes difficult to sign stars. Using my NWF as an example, I wouldn't want to be able to go out there and sign all the middle to lower pushed guys I want simply because they would always want the chance to be in a major league organization. Half the fun is being unable to sign the guy you really want, and having to use who will come to your organization.
Love the idea of the Bio Manager being included.
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Post by Carlzilla on Jul 11, 2013 12:39:59 GMT -5
Here's a brief description of each line of the *.wre (wrestler data) file.
[info header] - each section will have a header to make them easier to manually edit/read.
Name - The wrestlers name
Height - The wrestlers height in x' x" format
Weight - The wrestlers weight in lbs.
Hometown - Were the wrestler is from.
Finisher - Name of wrestlers finisher.
Submission? - Is it a submission - 0 for no, 1 for yes.
Male or female - 0 = male, 1 = female
[stats header] - another header.
Workrate - How decently the wrestler preforms in the ring.
Push - The likely hood of a wrestler winning.
Charisma - How well does the wrestler connect with the fans in a match/interview.
Recognition - How well known is the wrestler.
[vices header] - third header
drugs - does the wrestler have a drug problem? 0 for no, 1 for yes.
alcohol - does the wrestler had a drinking problem? 0 for no, 1 for yes.
steroids - is the wrestler known to use steroids? 0 for no, 1 for yes.
money - does the wrestler have a problem with money? 0 for no, 1 for yes.
[match ending moves header] - Moves header -10 moves that are capable of ending a match.
Move 1 - Name of the first non-finisher move that is capable of ending the match. Submission? - Is it a submission 0 for no, 1 for yes.
This is repeated 10 times. If there are not 10 moves, lines are left blank.
[personality header] - another header.
No sells - THIS IS NOT A GIMMICK NO SELLS! This is used in concert with the next line. There have been incidents in wrestling where one wrestler will stop "working" with another. If this is the case put a 1 here, otherwise it should be a 0. Most wrestlers will have a 0.
Will stiff - If someone starts no-selling this wrestlers moves, will they start "stiffing" the opponent? This increases the injury risk by quite a bit. Most wrestlers will have a 0 (no) here as well.
Won't submit - If the wrestler is more likely to pass out than tap out, set this to yes (1).
Unique move - If your wrestler has an ILLEGAL unique move that is capable of finishing matches (IE Great Muta) put it here. If it's a legal move, use the "MOVES" section.
Foreign object - If your wrestler has a foreign object that they bring to the ring, enter it here.
Manager 1 - Name of the primary manager
Interference Rating - How likely a manager is to interfere (0 not at all - 10 as much as possible)
Foreign Object - If this manager has a FO, what is it?
Manager 2 - Name of the secondary manager
Interference Rating - How likely a manager is to interfere (0 not at all - 10 as much as possible)
Foreign Object - If this manager has a FO, what is it?
Manager 3 - Name of the tertiary manager
Interference Rating - How likely a manager is to interfere (0 not at all - 10 as much as possible)
Foreign Object - If this manager has a FO, what is it?
[styles header] - final header
Brawler Technician High Flier High Spot Old school Mat based Heel Puroresu Power Diva
These are all the styles a wrestler can work in. Styles give a ratings boost to certain matches that work well with the style.
For all styles 1 = Can/will work this style, 0 = Can't/won't work this style.
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