|
Post by rey619 on Jul 14, 2013 9:35:30 GMT -5
So we're dropping the negative match ratings now, DUD being the lowest? I'm fine with that.
I really like the chart that you (or Jeff) came up with. Makes it somewhat easier to decide on Workrate. I feel that I rarely move anywhere else than between 60 and 95, but using this chart, I should move down quite a bit more, at least when creating WWE Divas and very green rookies.
We probably need some guidelines for Recognition too, but that is probably not high on the list of priorities right now.
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 14, 2013 10:41:25 GMT -5
Yeah, DUD is the lowest. If the match had negative stars, wasn't it technically a DUD?
When dealing with recognition, just imagine yourself in a conversation with a casual wrestling fan from the area the wrestler is from. How likely are they to know the wrestler in question.
100 = guys like Hogan, The Rock, Austin, Inoki, Baba, Misawa. Having done more than wrestling is the key to a 100%.
90 = Big name wrestlers that most people have at least heard of. Ric Flair, Bret Hart, The Undertaker, Roddy Piper, Cena (yeah, you can all kill me now...), Mutoh, Tigermask, Kobashi all fit here.
80 = They got a decent length main event push in a major promotion, but never became a huge star to casual fans. Edge, Eddie Guererro, CM Punk, Hiroshi Tanahashi, and Shinsuke Nakamura are good examples.
70 = Guys that worked for a big promotion, maybe even held a few titles, but never made it to the top, or have had fairly unsuccessful runs at the top. This includes guys like Kane, Big Show, Big Boss Man, Mr. Perfect, and Ted DiBiase.
60 = BIG name indy star, and eternal midcard guys from big companies. These are the guys the majors are scouting or have signed but never brought up. Chris Hero, Davey Richards, Kofi Kingston, Papa Shango/Godfather/Kama, etc.
50 = Guys who have made a name for themselves on the indy scene and opening talent for big promotions. Necrobutcher, The Orient Express, Buddy Rose, and Ebessan/Kikutaro are good examples.
40 = Forever indy guys. These are the guys you see in every indy promotion with a video deal that will NEVER end up anywhere else. Trik Davis, Dysfunction, Sexxxy Eddy, etc.
30 = Indy trash. They've been trained by, and wrestle for, a local or regional indy fed without a video deal.
20 = Backyard star.
> 20 = Totally unheard of.
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 14, 2013 12:30:04 GMT -5
Now, for the ultimate test of match ratings, I bring you Jim Duggan vs. The Great Khali in a 5 match series, each booked to be at least 30 minutes long.
Not a single salvageable match. Just as it should be.
Just so you all know, this match, because both guys blew up LONG before it ended, averaged a -10.40 * rating according to my variable monitor.
|
|
|
Post by gentlemanjeff on Jul 14, 2013 12:32:51 GMT -5
Ha! Clearly we need to work on negative ratings.
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 14, 2013 12:42:14 GMT -5
I think I may add ONE thing below DUD for negative ratings.
DUD to me means the match was pretty bad, but still a passable wrestling match. To be honest, I never actually pictured the sim generating a outrageously negative rating. I was wrong.
I'm thinking either UNWATCHABLE or TERRIBLE is necessary for situations when the match average would be below or at a -** or so. So instead of getting a rating as to exactly how bad it was, it will just tell you that it was FUCKING BAD.
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 14, 2013 12:50:09 GMT -5
Just wanted to prove that they could have a < DUD match if the conditions were right.
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 14, 2013 15:18:09 GMT -5
3 and 4 way dances are now possible to be booked.
Elimination and single fall. With all sorts of extra options.
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 14, 2013 15:51:00 GMT -5
What do you guys feel the MAXIMUM size for battle royals should be? I'm thinking 100 for the ultra high end and 5 for the low end with multiples of 5 in between the two.
|
|
|
Post by rey619 on Jul 14, 2013 17:11:53 GMT -5
Why only in multiples of 5?
I know they did a 149 man battle royal in California couple of years back, but 100 is more than enough I think.
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 14, 2013 17:18:49 GMT -5
I figured it out without a limit. You can do as many or as few as you want as long as there's more than 2.
|
|
|
Post by snabbit888 on Jul 14, 2013 19:49:01 GMT -5
Okay, good. I didn't want to have to do 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. only, because a lot of times the size of my roster doesn't allow for that. I end up doing a lot of weird 17-man battle royals.
|
|
nick
Enhancement Talent
Posts: 16
|
Post by nick on Jul 15, 2013 10:52:53 GMT -5
I have a question about downloading the Wrestler Editor. Keep in mind, I am a Mac guy, and only use Windows on an old Dell at work. However, it has been my primary TNM machine.
I downloaded the RAR File and I also downloaded WinRAR to unzip it. When I tried to open the Wrestler Editor application, I received a message that says it is "not a valid Win32 application."
Any idea what I can do?
Also, it is very impressive how quickly you are making progress on this. Just so I can be sure I understand, when running a booked match, we will actually be typing in the ending result the exact way that we want it to read? Yet there will also be an unbooked option that takes the moves, attribute points, and styles into consideration to determine a winner?
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 15, 2013 11:18:57 GMT -5
Yes, that is correct.
As far as the editor, which version of windows does the machine at work run? Is it 64bit or 32bit. The problem may be that I need to compile a separate 32bit version as well as the one I posted.
Also, be sure that you have the .NET framework 4.5 installed on the computer you're trying to use it on. If it's XP, that'll be the issue as it doesn't support .NET 4.5.
|
|
nick
Enhancement Talent
Posts: 16
|
Post by nick on Jul 15, 2013 11:27:43 GMT -5
As far as the editor, which version of windows does the machine at work run? Is it 64bit or 32bit. The problem may be that I need to compile a separate 32bit version as well as the one I posted. I had a coworker look at my computer, and he confirmed that it does not have a 64-bit version of Windows XP on it. He said that all 32-bit apps would work on a 64-bit machine, but not the other way around. I am assuming TNM is a 32-bit app. If possible, I think it would be best for you to make the app work on 32-bit machines, as I would think there could be others in my same situation - people who are Mac users, who only whip out a Windows machine to run TNM, and therefore may be on outdated systems. I know I personally would love to start making exports while we wait for the release of the sim. Thanks again for everything you are doing, and assuming I am able to use the app, I will be first in line to donate!
|
|
|
Post by mdale2k on Jul 15, 2013 13:02:45 GMT -5
I must say this looks great.
I tried to download the wrestler editor but it kept wanted me to install some EXE file from the site you uploaded to. That seem right?
PS: I am shocked Khali and Duggan didn't get higher!
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 15, 2013 13:15:25 GMT -5
I must say this looks great. I tried to download the wrestler editor but it kept wanted me to install some EXE file from the site you uploaded to. That seem right? PS: I am shocked Khali and Duggan didn't get higher! That doesn't sound right, but I use AdBlockPus on Firefox, so I may be skipping some of the BS that mediafire tries to push on you. If you PM me your e-mail address I can send you the editor to there, but I have no webspace, so I'm stuck with free hosts, and all of them probably have ads and assorted other crap that you'd have to wade through to download things. For future downloads, I recommend that you use AdBlockPlus and Firefox. Then you should avoid most of the crap that free sites try to foist on you.
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 15, 2013 13:16:14 GMT -5
As far as the editor, which version of windows does the machine at work run? Is it 64bit or 32bit. The problem may be that I need to compile a separate 32bit version as well as the one I posted. I had a coworker look at my computer, and he confirmed that it does not have a 64-bit version of Windows XP on it. He said that all 32-bit apps would work on a 64-bit machine, but not the other way around. I am assuming TNM is a 32-bit app. If possible, I think it would be best for you to make the app work on 32-bit machines, as I would think there could be others in my same situation - people who are Mac users, who only whip out a Windows machine to run TNM, and therefore may be on outdated systems. I know I personally would love to start making exports while we wait for the release of the sim. Thanks again for everything you are doing, and assuming I am able to use the app, I will be first in line to donate! TNM is actually a 16bit program, which is why it doesn't work on 64bit processors, and why I'm writing this program to replace it in the first place. I'll compile a 32bit Windows XP version for you. If you PM me your e-mail address I'll send it your way.
|
|
|
Post by seanzarelli on Jul 15, 2013 13:39:55 GMT -5
Everything is looking great Carlzilla
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 15, 2013 15:09:13 GMT -5
Tag Team and 6 man tag team are now working in the match engine. Hot damn!
Tag team took the most amount of code of ANY match type I've worked on so far. Even more than battle royals despite having less possible participants.
Now I've got to add them to the booking engine.
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 15, 2013 15:13:21 GMT -5
The first 6 man match. Not bad.
|
|
nick
Enhancement Talent
Posts: 16
|
Post by nick on Jul 15, 2013 16:05:24 GMT -5
Thanks Carl, I got the 32-bit version in my e-mail working now.
I started playing around and began to make a Randy Orton export. Based on your explanation of how to go about deciding workrate, I was initially going to give Orton an 80, with the idea that his best match would be ****, but I remember him having a couple matches with Christian last year that were quite possibly ****1/2, although that is not Randy's typical output. Based on how you want this to work, should Randy get an 80 or an 85 to best simulate his potential?
Also, just for discussion's sake, I gave him an 85 charisma, although the reaction his entrance and key moves generate would lean towards him being a 90-95, his promos are typically very weak. Where do you think he should be based on both in-ring and interview skills needing to be taken into consideration? Or should promos be a separate rating all together?
Lastly, to clarify, in the moves section - are only the moves that could potentially end the match to be listed? Because while Randy has some key signature moves (second rope DDT, snap scoop powerslam, etc.), I can't say I have ever seen them end a match. So should his only move be his RKO?
|
|
|
Post by gentlemanjeff on Jul 15, 2013 16:25:55 GMT -5
I think Carl overstated the workrate thing slightly. If it's based on the formula I developed, you should rate him at the top rating he would regularly produce if wrestling someone of equal ability. It's not the absolute highest, it's about the highest you would expect Orton to regularly generate in ideal conditions (long match, goal is to put on good match, etc.).
I'd say Orton tops out around *** or ***1/2, so I'd give him 65-70. Now, you're right, Orton and Christian put on a series that most people rate as ****. I'd say Christian is probably also a 70, maybe a 75. Those two together would regularly put on ***-***1/2 matches, but with a good run of luck/rolls/match chemistry, they could easily do a series of ****+ matches.
That being said, that's if given 15+ on PPV, which they were. I'd expect Orton v. Christian in 6 minutes on Raw to be more of a **1/2-*** match.
|
|
|
Post by gentlemanjeff on Jul 15, 2013 16:27:28 GMT -5
Also, I'd say it's important to remember that mic skills <> charisma. Steamboat had low mic skills but pretty good charisma. We could break down into mic skills vs. charisma, but that seems unnecessarily granular. I'd say charisma is enough.
So, for example, your 100 charismas are Hogan, Andre, etc. Hogan is also a 100 mic skills, whereas Andre would be like a 60. But again, who cares? Charisma = how interesting the guy is, so it works as a catch-all stat.
|
|
nick
Enhancement Talent
Posts: 16
|
Post by nick on Jul 15, 2013 17:28:05 GMT -5
I'd say Orton tops out around *** or ***1/2, so I'd give him 65-70. Now, you're right, Orton and Christian put on a series that most people rate as ****. I'd say Christian is probably also a 70, maybe a 75. Those two together would regularly put on ***-***1/2 matches, but with a good run of luck/rolls/match chemistry, they could easily do a series of ****+ matches. That being said, that's if given 15+ on PPV, which they were. I'd expect Orton v. Christian in 6 minutes on Raw to be more of a **1/2-*** match. Nice response, Jeff. After reading what you said, I would agree, Orton would probably get a 70, or ***1/2, for his workrate on my export. From there, I understand how if you have him wrestling a Daniel Bryan type, who would have a much better workrate, that could elevate an Orton match to a **** or greater. But besides Orton's opponent having a high workrate, what other variables are going into match rating? Will there be something that calculates heat, like TNM did, or another factor that helps determine match rating? And I also agree that mic skills isn't what charisma is all about, it should be about how interesting the guy is, and how much the fans care. With that said, Orton would have to be an 85-90 in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Carlzilla on Jul 15, 2013 17:37:54 GMT -5
Charisma really should probably have read "Mic Work". It's ONLY use will be for non-wrestling segments.
I will eventually account for individual wrestler heat, but right now it's not accounted for.
|
|