psz
Midcarder
Posts: 259
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Post by psz on Jun 13, 2011 20:38:31 GMT -5
That is all.
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Post by pulsar on Jun 16, 2011 20:16:11 GMT -5
I would like to disagree. His mic work is second rate, and his ring work is par at best.
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Post by phudjie on Jun 16, 2011 20:39:43 GMT -5
...I haven't seen one of his matches in a long time - is he still extra spinny & flippy?
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Post by theimpalertmx on Jun 18, 2011 21:47:50 GMT -5
I would like to disagree. His mic work is second rate, and his ring work is par at best. You've been asleep for the past couple of months, haven't you? That is the only explanation possible for you to be unable to appreciate the greatness that is R-Truth - the one who is no longer pandering to Lil' Jimmy. Wait... you're Lil' Jimmy, aren't you? Also, it is Raw... the best you can expect out of it is an average, unremarkable match. No one can escape that - not Punk, not Mysterio, nobody.
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Post by pulsar on Jun 20, 2011 0:38:18 GMT -5
Liar....Did you see that 7 on 7 diva's match? 5 star....if not 6!!!
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Post by mdale2k on Jun 20, 2011 9:48:57 GMT -5
I was actually hoping he would win last night
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Post by JoshiQ on Jun 22, 2011 23:46:09 GMT -5
I hate, hate, hate rapper R Truth. But I can't express how much I've been into crazy R Truth. He is really making the gimmick work.
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Post by pulsar on Jun 23, 2011 9:32:29 GMT -5
Actually, the three way promo with Truth, Punk and Miz....was pretty entertaining.
Is it me, or did Raw have a lot of PPV quality matches? I thought the Ziggler/Kingston match was REALLY good, and the Punk, Del Rio, Misterio match was REALLY good too.
If they did Bourne/Sin Cara like the fans actually voted for, they would have had their best card since Wrestlemania.
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Post by theimpalertmx on Jun 23, 2011 21:16:52 GMT -5
Dolph/Kingston was pretty good for a Kofi Kingston match and it should be for how much they've worked with each other. You can usually count on Punk and Mysterio to bring the goods (save for that one bland match they had several weeks back). The only problem with them having two great matches that night was the show was three hours long. Some of the rest of that stuff was pretty brutal. I don't think Vince could have been too happy with the, "This is stupid!" chant coming across quite clearly on TV.
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psz
Midcarder
Posts: 259
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Post by psz on Jun 24, 2011 7:49:54 GMT -5
Dolph/Kingston was pretty good for a Kofi Kingston match and it should be for how much they've worked with each other. You can usually count on Punk and Mysterio to bring the goods (save for that one bland match they had several weeks back). The only problem with them having two great matches that night was the show was three hours long. Some of the rest of that stuff was pretty brutal. I don't think Vince could have been too happy with the, "This is stupid!" chant coming across quite clearly on TV. Well, maybe if they'd actually, I dunno, USED THE FANS' VOTES, they wouldn't have had that chant (Yeah yeah, "technical difficulties") ;->
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Post by theimpalertmx on Jun 24, 2011 16:41:26 GMT -5
Actually the Arm Wrestling one was apparently correct.... sad, I know. There is no way they would have intended to put Mason Ryan in that match. I think it was supposed to be their way of giving Sin Cara an opponent that would make his stuff look better than it has since he came in.
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psz
Midcarder
Posts: 259
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Post by psz on Jun 25, 2011 13:38:44 GMT -5
I really REALLY find it hard to believe the fans voted on an arm wrestling match (especially considering the reaction, and compared to the other two choices).
As for Mason Ryan, I figured it was just a way to get him over.
I dunno, maybe I'm just cynical, but I long ago stopped thinking that WWE's "Fan's Choice" events were actually fan's choices.
As for R-Truth, he pulls off Bat-shit Crazy better than anyone in the WWE since... Edge went Bat-shit crazy after his return from injury.
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Post by magiccitydawg on Jul 7, 2011 0:19:44 GMT -5
I hate, hate, hate rapper R Truth. But I can't express how much I've been into crazy R Truth. He is really making the gimmick work. R-Truth deserves a great push since he was a two time NWA champion when he was with TNA. Oh, that's right. Nobody gets a push if they were with TNA. Silly me!
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psz
Midcarder
Posts: 259
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Post by psz on Jul 7, 2011 7:37:29 GMT -5
R-Truth deserves a great push since he was a two time NWA champion when he was with TNA. Oh, that's right. Nobody gets a push if they were with TNA. Silly me! CM Punk was with TNA, and he's a multi-time WWE champion ^_^
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Post by allpowerfulgarth on Jul 7, 2011 8:05:30 GMT -5
Ditto Christian and Jeff Hardy. Sure, they were in WWE before going to TNA, but so was R-Truth.
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Post by magiccitydawg on Jul 7, 2011 11:00:30 GMT -5
Ditto Christian and Jeff Hardy. Sure, they were in WWE before going to TNA, but so was R-Truth. True, but how many have been saddled with less than desirable characters, ie Chris Harris (Braden Walker). And how many WWE Championships has Christian held, not counting the tag team belts. One, and for only one week. Had Edge not retired, would Christian have even looked at the belt? And R-Truth has not worn a WWE Championship belt as of yet. True, he was a one time Unites States champion and a two time Hardcore champion, but what about the big belt? Jeff Hardy is the only one who has had a great push after his TNA stint. looking at him, why would any company give him a push anyway? CM Punk deserves any push he gets. His promo was genius! I would vote CM Punk for President at this point.
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Post by theimpalertmx on Jul 7, 2011 14:48:56 GMT -5
Yes, damn WWE for not tapping into the raw charisma of Chris Harris. Braden Walker, Chris Harris... whatever name you can him by he still sucks. Whether a guy has been in TNA or not has no bearing whatsoever on your chances in WWE. TNA's roster basically breaks down like this:
A.) People who couldn't cut it in the WWE (this includes developmental guys) B.) People who burned bridges with WWE C.) Indy wrestlers who will gladly take the money to work 2-3 days a month plus have their independent bookings so that their wrestling career provides them with a liveable wage without needing secondary income.
WWE will have no problem with a guy like Christian who wants to leave for other opportunities. In other words, he isn't the one making you money and is thus expendable (at least back when he left). WWE has an overloaded roster as is so it is not like they have a shortage of guys to work with. Plus, there are plenty of guys outside of the company who can take the role as the dependable midcarder. If you are THAT good to be a star in WWE then you're going to get there eventually. Sometimes it takes a while for such guys to find their stride or get the opportunity, but it will eventually come if they really have it.
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psz
Midcarder
Posts: 259
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Post by psz on Jul 7, 2011 19:45:07 GMT -5
Agreed (for the most part, anyway... There probably ARE some guys in the Indies who CAN handle the WWE style, but just haven't for whatever reason).
There are a few people inside and outside of WWE who I personally think could handle it (WWE style ringwork, WWE style micwork, etc), but to be honest it's a really short list at this point.
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Post by theimpalertmx on Jul 7, 2011 23:37:40 GMT -5
Well there are always going to be the guys who just prefer wrestling internationally with indy dates in the US. Low Ki definitely falls in to that category - I think the only reason he even tried WWE was there wasn't really much more he could do. I know he still wasn't a great fit, but he was doing fine when he left. He had his niche as the hard-kicker.
It's weird who actually does make it to WWE successfully. I hated Evan Bourne in the indys - he seemed like he came straight out of a Fire Pro game. However, he got to the WWE and he is a guy who is more favorable now to me than he was as Matt Sydal. In his case working a slower style that doesn't require 20 signature moves has paid off. On the opposite side you have Colt Cabana, a guy everyone thought would have been perfect for WWE... and we all know how that ended up.
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Post by allpowerfulgarth on Jul 8, 2011 8:23:18 GMT -5
I think there's a tendency to look at ex-TNA guys in WWE and say, "WWE won't give these guys good pushes just because they were in TNA!" But leaving aside for a moment the fact that a huge volume of wrestlers would kill for the pushes Christian and R-Truth have been getting lately, the fact is WWE can only have so many world champions at any given time. And although I know a lot of Internet types take issue with the top-of-the-card positioning of John Cena and Randy Orton, you'd have to work mighty hard to convince me that the rest of WWE's current main event/upper midcard scene is made up of talentless hacks who are so, so much worse than the people TNA has to offer. Christian, R-Truth, CM Punk, Alberto Del Rio, Rey Mysterio, the Miz, Sheamus and even Wade Barrett are nothing to sneeze at. Yeah, you've also got Kane, the Big Show and Mark Henry, but none of them is ever getting another world title reign. Nor is the Undertaker, and if Triple H ever gets another one, it's only going to be so he can give an up-and-comer a rub when he loses it.
On a side note, the only person to blame for Chris Harris' horrific crash-and-burn in WWE is Chris Harris.
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Post by theimpalertmx on Jul 8, 2011 13:27:39 GMT -5
Based on how bad ass Mark Henry has looked on Smackdown I would not be surprised at all for him to get the title, even if it would probably be a short run. If not that then it seems like Henry vs. Zeke is bound to happen and Henry will take the IC belt instead. I'd really rather see them as a team, though. The matches wouldn't be pretty, but like any match with David Otunga is? If match quality isn't going to matter then I want to see guys getting demolished and tossed around like a beach ball.
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Post by magiccitydawg on Jul 9, 2011 10:43:41 GMT -5
I think there's a tendency to look at ex-TNA guys in WWE and say, "WWE won't give these guys good pushes just because they were in TNA!" But leaving aside for a moment the fact that a huge volume of wrestlers would kill for the pushes Christian and R-Truth have been getting lately, the fact is WWE can only have so many world champions at any given time. And although I know a lot of Internet types take issue with the top-of-the-card positioning of John Cena and Randy Orton, you'd have to work mighty hard to convince me that the rest of WWE's current main event/upper midcard scene is made up of talentless hacks who are so, so much worse than the people TNA has to offer. Christian, R-Truth, CM Punk, Alberto Del Rio, Rey Mysterio, the Miz, Sheamus and even Wade Barrett are nothing to sneeze at. Yeah, you've also got Kane, the Big Show and Mark Henry, but none of them is ever getting another world title reign. Nor is the Undertaker, and if Triple H ever gets another one, it's only going to be so he can give an up-and-comer a rub when he loses it. On a side note, the only person to blame for Chris Harris' horrific crash-and-burn in WWE is Chris Harris. I will concede the fact that Chris Harris handled his situation in a not so professional way. Afterall, if Dusty Rhodes could make polkadots work, Harris could have made his character work. I also believe that Vince McMahon could have done more as well. With Christian, he was NWA Champion after he left WWE and went to TNA. He was good enough to be handed the ball and run with it for a good while, but when he "wins" the WWE World title, they had to give it to Randy Orton after only 1 week TV time. Actually 2 days because the Smackdown tapings are on Tuesdays? And the way R-Truth is going, he should have won the title at the last PPV. There may not be an "open" bias against former TNA stars, but I do believe that Vinnie Mac will make some of them sweat it out. Afterall, it's only natural. If someone worked for Verizon, and decided to go to work for ATT, it may take them a little longer to move up than someone who worked for ATT from the start. And that's what I am saying. If a star, AJ Styles for instance, is good enough to be a multi-champion in TNA, he should be good enough to be WWE champion if he went. But, how long do you think that VM would "make him pay" until he did get his push?
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Post by snabbit888 on Jul 9, 2011 11:29:30 GMT -5
I still am floored that people think Christian losing the World Title so quickly is a bad thing. He has been in a main event feud for months now, clearly the biggest push he's ever gotten. Who gives a flying fuck if he has the belt or doesn't? You don't need to be the champion to be a top tier guy. Christian is doing just fine, and if he never wins the title again, he's still done great for himself.
And how can you possibly even consider putting any blame on Vince for Braden Walker? He should have never even gotten on tv with all the weight he gained. Maybe that was Vince's fault for letting him be shown to the public in the first place.
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Post by theimpalertmx on Jul 9, 2011 17:29:40 GMT -5
Who gives a flying fuck if he has the belt or doesn't? This. While it is great to be given a run with the top title in a promotion, a belt is nothing more than a gimmick. I'm sure to most guys it is more about the company being appreciative of their hard work and that the company has faith in them. I think this has kind of been lost in the era of championship hot potato. Some guys don't NEED a belt to be successful - look at the Undertaker. For a guy that has been there for 20 years he has rarely needed to hold the title. The only reasons you give a guy like him, who can get over just by standing in the ring, are strategical in setting up whoever they want the next guy with the belt to be or the main event scene is thin so you give it to an established guy while new guys fill the top. I suppose there are also times where a guy's gimmick relies on having it; for example, when Chris Jericho was doing his whole "I'm the best in the world at what I do" deal, it makes sense to a guy calling himself the best to have the title. When people do go into a frenzy about certain wrestlers not getting certain belts that is a good thing to the business. For all their tirades about why "X" doesn't have a title and taking wrestling far too seriously, in the end they are successfully being worked. If you ever told them that they would deny it to the end and their head would probably explode, but it is the truth. Hell, Vince McMahon is able to work them in OTHER promotions. Every time some kid yells in front of his webcam to put on YouTube, proclaiming how much better TNA or ROH because they'll give Worky McHighspot the top belt... that's a victory for Vince because he has made you care THAT much about wrestling. And when HE signs Worky McHighspot the people invested in him will watch the product, even if they vehemently deny that they give a shit about what is going on in WWE. It's not all a bad thing, either. That's what the business has left these days - kayfabe is dead so they rely on people getting emotionally invested in certain wrestlers. When TAKA Michinoku had that World title match with Triple H on Raw several years back you can bet your ass that I was marking out. Every time TAKA would get a near fall I'd pump my fist and keep jumping around in my seat because the little guy who I remember watching in high school gyms and parking lots was THAT close to winning the title. Now, of course I knew that Triple H was in no danger of actually losing the title, but in that moment I wanted to believe he could. When he did win it was a genuine buzzkill - again, even when I knew what was going on. And for 2 minutes I probably cursed Vince McMahon and his damn company for never giving the guys I wanted to succeeded the belt... and then I'd come down and go, "Well played, sir." Those moments remind you why you stick with wrestling - no matter who may be getting screwed, who is a sleazeball in real life, how many guys are dying way too young and all the other things that often make me question whether I should still support such a business. I can't NOT be a fan because of those moments because they hooked me in a long time ago and even if I wanted to quit, I'd show up sooner or later looking for a fix.
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Post by allpowerfulgarth on Jul 11, 2011 8:15:39 GMT -5
If a star, AJ Styles for instance, is good enough to be a multi-champion in TNA, he should be good enough to be WWE champion if he went. OK, I don't agree with this notion. Just because someone works as a world champion in TNA, that doesn't mean he works as a world champion in WWE. And I don't mean this in a dismissive "WWE is the big leagues, TNA is the minors" sense; there are some people who have been given the belt (or at least a huge push) in TNA who wouldn't be able to reach that level of over-ness in WWE. The two companies just don't have the same fans. A.J. Styles is a guy who works well as your world champion in TNA because TNA fans traditionally go gaga for guys who utilize his style -- lots of technical savvy, lots of high spots. But in WWE, his size disadvantage would be even more pronounced unless he's facing Rey Mysterio all the time. On top of that, Styles ain't great on the microphone, and he'd need those mic skills to be taken seriously as a world champion. You can take issue with the in-ring ability of some of the people WWE has put the belt on recently, but all of them can talk circles around a guy like Styles, even Randy Orton. He was never a world champion in TNA, but a good person to look at to study this effect is Marcus Cor Von. As Monty Brown, he spent a lot of time at the top of the card because he A) was a powerhouse and B) had a unique promo style that the fans could get behind. But when he jumped to WWE and became Cor Von, he was hard to take seriously as a powerhouse because he was suddenly in the company of a lot of guys who were much bigger than he was -- most noticeable by the fact that he debuted on the brand whose champion was Bobby Lashley. He cut promos as Marcus Cor Von that were similar to the promos he cut as Monty Brown, but the WWE fans just plain didn't respond. Abyss is a former TNA champion, but he'd have a tough time reaching the same level in WWE because his size just isn't as impressive when you put him next to Kane, the Big Show or the Great Khali. Were it not for the fact that TNA tends to put so much stock in ex-WWE guys, the reverse of this effect could be true as well. When it's not trying to squeeze money out of ex-WWE talent, TNA does have a tendency toward better ring work and more high spots. You could see former WWE world champions like Jack Swagger and Chris Jericho getting the big belt in TNA, but without that reverence for ex-WWE talent, I doubt TNA would ever consider putting the belt on Sheamus or Kane.
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